Unfortunately, I think this will have a significant impact on the election. There are still a lot of people in both parties that have a lot of respect for him.
Knowing nothing about it, my gut instinct is that Senator McCain probably pissed off Powell at some point when he was still in the Army. McCain seemingly has a way of making enemies among US flag officers.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with race either - probably just another cabinet appointment!?!
McCain does have tendency to alienate mlitary leaders, but usually is correct when he crosses them - even they realize it. Not that it makes any difference, after all it is political in the upper levels too.
Why hate? Quotas do what quotas do, there is no reason to get upset about it. If they had a choice or capacity, they wouldn't need to be a quota. But then, you have to know that by now. Besides, when has it ever been un-American to capitalize, even if it is only based on you skin color or sex? Outright prostitution is even legal in some states, and D.C. of course.
Although, the moral issue just won't go away, no matter how hard some try to stomp God. Quotas and prostitution are wrong and ants transforming cannot transform that mountain. Nor can ants erase the morality inherent because of nature being of God. It must be irritating to actually know you are wrong and have no handle on it because it is tied to reality.
So, yeah, his very nature is wrong, so that he does wrong is completely predictable. What, again, is to hate. Dismiss, perhaps, ridicule of the manner in which he was created, certainly, but hate? That is for the left.
Well, Colin Powell for one, welcomes his new Collectivist Overlords.
I read the article on msNBC in which the endorsement was delivered. Colin basically spat forth a small collection of DNC talking points, without any reference to his own thoughts on the matter.
When someone endorses another solely in terms of the Party Line, it is fair to question the authenticity of the event, and to speculate that its true nature is along the lines of a selling out and rent seeking.
We wish Mr. Powell luck in his new career, which will proceed in whatever direction it will take, I am certain neither noticing nor caring that my respect for the man and his judgment stands revoked.
And, as per my SOP, I continue to be amused at those who can simultaneously hold the contradictory idea that Sarah Palin has insufficient experience to be president while Barack Obama somehow does.
"Sarah Palin has insufficient experience to be president while Barack Obama somehow does."
It's not about experience, per se geek, it's about another word...a word which the right has been very successful, with propaganda, at blocking the left from using lest they get heaps of "victims" thrown at them.
It's not about experience, per se geek, it's about another word...a word which the right has been very successful, with propaganda, at blocking the left from using lest they get heaps of "victims" thrown at them.
I am not at all surprised that Powell endorsed Obama - The One. I always thought that Powell is one of those strictly political generals and knew who not to piss off. When the press sniffed out the My Lai massacre in Vietnam before it became the crisis for the military the army decided to do an investigation. They appointed a young lieutenant to investigate to see what happened. It was clear that the intent was to whitewash the event. The appointed Lt. did not talk to anyone on the ground at My Lai nor the helicopter pilot or copilet who inserted themselves and their helicopter between the troops who were killing the Vietmanese and the troops. The only people who the Lt. interviewed were in the chain of command who wanted the whole thing to go away and most assuredly did not want to see evidence that the incident actually took place. The young Lt.'s report vidicated the military in finding that no such massacre had taken place. That Lt. is General Powell. In my opinion he placed his career above his oath to duty.
There are strong indications that he was an affirmative action candidate when he was selected for promotion to Brigadier General.
Jim, in the higher ranks of the military it is mostly political, don't piss off the generals. Look at how long it took and what it took for Colonel McMaster to be promoted to general. He pissed off people with his book and by being successful with his approach to dealing with Iraq.
Powell has been a moderate/liberal "Republican" forever. The fact that he spent time at State probably didn't help, and then there is the whole race issue. It is pretty sad really. He just sold out all his previous comrades to be doomed to having "that one" as their CiC.
I remember reading a "human interest" article about Colin Powell in which he was getting a good used car for his son, a Volvo, it's a safe car - Colin likes Volvos - he's gotta be a Liberal.
I think it was this one:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200408u/powell
Dude, my other car is a Volvo. The US marketing spin gave them the liberalWeenie/soccer mom rep. The truth is...with anything other than the enviroGreenSuckass drivetrain...they're rockets.
After Colin sold out the administration on the Valarie Plame nonsense and hid Richard Armatage behind his skirt, nothing he does or says surprises me in the least.
Well, if you call outing a CIA agent, whose job it was to track loose nukes (i.e. actually protect our country from devastating attacks as opposed to the nonsense the right views as protection), for the reasons of controlling propaganda....then yes, it is was nonsense.
Ok Mark, Lets start with the fact that she was already "out". Her name AND profession had been already been published in the DC "Who's Who". Second, Armatage was the one who "leaked" her name to the press, not Scooter Libby or Karl Rove and that fact was known to Patrick Fitzgerald within two days of the opening of the investigation. The rest of the year-plus fishing expedition and the hundreds of thousands if not million dollar cost make it NONSENSE Mark.
If you cannot be bothered with the truth then you had best be advised to do the anatomically impossible.
.........and the fact that Colin Powell also knew this at the same time, yet said not one word is a disgrace. Your buddy plays dirty politics with the worst of them after not getting his way. You really should read some of the many accounts of his views leading up to the start of the Iraq War to get some perspective.
Eagle, I think you might want to spend some time looking into the case a little more. Not sure where you get your information from but Rove was talking about it right around the time that Armitage was as well. They all were because Cheney had written a note on the NYT editorial about Plame and given it to Libby...also at the same time as Armitage. This is a fact.
"If you cannot be bothered with the truth then you had best be advised to do the anatomically impossible."
The truth as your ideology dictates? Yeah, I don't think there is anything truthful about that.
Look who is fixated on accusing others of idealogical ridgidity! Look in the mirror Mark. She and her husband have been proven to be liars, (maybe I need to type that in boldface for you Mark)LIARS, testifying to one thing when there are legal consequnces, ie in front of Congress, and another in their "memoirs".
Eagle, Markadoofus just loves conspiracy theories and will adopt any such theory if it slanders the other side. The fact that his pet theories cannot explain all the facts, especially the ones that refute them, is something his three functioning neurons cannot grasp.
Kevin, my younger brother was a Parts Manager at an auto dealership for over 30 years, almost all of which was with Volvo. Now he runs a Volvo salvage yard, a very clean, efficient, capitalist enterprise. His politics match mine and always have. His wife has nearly always (of course!) driven a Volvo, and her politics match his.
So much for jumping to conclusions. Fact is, Volvos are good, dependable transportation, and transportation is what vehicles are for.
Markadelphia has also been proven to be a liar. This might be why he feels such a kindreds spirit to Wilson/Plame.
The difference between Wilson's Congressional testimony, and his NYT editorial and Plame's book has been pointed out to Mark repeatedly.
Doesn't matter. Their story must be true. Because it damages Bush. A commentator here really summed up Mark well - I'll see if I can get them to come post, I don't do it justice. I Grok it when they explain it.
Markadelphia: (And no, I haven't forgotten your admitted lies.) It did happen to her so she is a primary source. Will you listen to her side?
Could you at least exhibit basic decency and note when people point things out to you. Such as "primary sources."
But we know her side, Mark. What you're talking about is her propaganda. Quite the secretive CIA agent. Her "story" doesn't match the facts as we knew them then, as we know them now, and most importantly: Her "story" conflicts with his _under oath_ testimony.
Somebody's lying. It could be the one risking a 10 year prison sentence, or it could be the one risking a spot on the NYT bestseller list. Most of us can judge the relative merit of those based on that. You can't.
Well I guess I took the bait.....I'm a daily reader here but don't comment much and hadn't seen Mark's comments on this subject before. I've seen plenty of his intransigence on other subjects though. I did notice however that he hasn't been able dispute any of the facts surrounding the case. And they say WE'RE mind numbed robots?!!!!!
Eagle, you can understand a lot about him by reading this comment and the whole thread in which it is embedded, followed by this comment and its thread. To really grasp it all would require a shitload of reading, starting about eighteen months ago, but these two comments summarize all that nicely. They're my comments, and I stand by them.
I remember reading a "human interest" article about Colin Powell in which he was getting a good used car for his son, a Volvo, it's a safe car - Colin likes Volvos - he's gotta be a Liberal.
Well damn, kiss my ass and call me a librul. I got one for my son too. What do you plan to do for your teenager - hand him the keys to a Camaro and a bottle of Jack Daniels?
I've heard some folks claim something along the order of "Well MY truth is......" as if that has any bearing on reality. I guess when you run out of a reasoned argument you can just make shit up and "Lalalalalala I can't hear you" rules the world.
Of course, if you've purchased a gun, you know you can't just pick one up. As Mark knows - we've told him several times.
He's a busy guy, perhaps he forgot.
But if it was just being busy, he'd have been reminded at that point. And acknowledge it. Instead, he just... leaves. To come back later and again, toss out something deliberately wrong. (In his "defense", it's because we've got bad motivations. So he discounts anything we say, no matter how factual, in favor of those who claim to have better intentions (in his estimation), no matter how many times they can be demonstrated to be lying.)
That's deliberate, it's dishonest, and it's fundamental to his character. His "Truth" as he sees it by definition (and demonstration) requires one to lie to get there.
Same for "primary sources" (which is really only correctly used in historical contexts) and the Frosts, poster children and poster parents for S-CHIP. No matter how many times you point something out to him - even if he concedes it at some point, he'll ignore his concesson later to bring back up the disgraced and disproven point.
"It's not about experience, per se geek, it's about another word...a word which the right has been very successful, with propaganda, at blocking the left from using lest they get heaps of 'victims' thrown at them."
This from a guy apparently enchanted with the candidate whose campaign and supporters rushed to demonize and assassinate the character of a plumber, picked at random by the candidate, for daring to disagree with The One.
And yet that same candidate has the balls to whine about the "negativity" of his opponent.
The major media did more investigation of Joe the plumber in 48 hours than they have done of Barack Obama in TWO YEARS. And the only job Joe is trying for is owner of his plumbing company. He's not trying to be the guy who tells the top military force on the planet when and where to fight and die. He's not trying to be the guy who tells you how much of your check gets CONFISCATED by Uncle Sugar so he can give it to his pet causes and political cronies. And yet he has had a barrage of investigators coming up with reasons why his opinion shouldn't be trusted, and the man he disagreed with who IS trying for that job still has YEARS of his past that are glossed over and an incredible volume of records he refuses to release.
But oh no, THAT's not "propaganda", is it?
What's that old saying? Something about motes and beams, I'll think of it in a minute....
*snicker*
Note:
All avatars and any images or other media embedded in comments were hosted on the JS-Kit website and have been lost;
references to haloscan comments have been partially automatically remapped, but accuracy is not guaranteed and corrections are solicited.
If you notice any problems with this page or wish to have your home page link updated, please contact John Hardin <jhardin@impsec.org>
JS-Kit/Echo comments for article at http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2008/10/were-supposed-to-be-surprised.html (37 comments)
Tentative mapping of comments to original article, corrections solicited.
Unfortunately, I think this will have a significant impact on the election. There are still a lot of people in both parties that have a lot of respect for him.
Knowing nothing about it, my gut instinct is that Senator McCain probably pissed off Powell at some point when he was still in the Army. McCain seemingly has a way of making enemies among US flag officers.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with race either - probably just another cabinet appointment!?!
McCain does have tendency to alienate mlitary leaders, but usually is correct when he crosses them - even they realize it. Not that it makes any difference, after all it is political in the upper levels too.
Actually, I'm waiting for the right to accuse Powell of being a traitor and a hater of America.
Actually, I'm waiting for the right to accuse Powell of being a traitor and a hater of America
It's called "free speech," Mark. You have the right to accuse anyone of anything at any time - no waiting necessary - so please, feel free! ;)
Markadelphia,
Why hate? Quotas do what quotas do, there is no reason to get upset about it. If they had a choice or capacity, they wouldn't need to be a quota. But then, you have to know that by now. Besides, when has it ever been un-American to capitalize, even if it is only based on you skin color or sex? Outright prostitution is even legal in some states, and D.C. of course.
Although, the moral issue just won't go away, no matter how hard some try to stomp God. Quotas and prostitution are wrong and ants transforming cannot transform that mountain. Nor can ants erase the morality inherent because of nature being of God. It must be irritating to actually know you are wrong and have no handle on it because it is tied to reality.
So, yeah, his very nature is wrong, so that he does wrong is completely predictable. What, again, is to hate. Dismiss, perhaps, ridicule of the manner in which he was created, certainly, but hate? That is for the left.
Well, Colin Powell for one, welcomes his new Collectivist Overlords.
I read the article on msNBC in which the endorsement was delivered. Colin basically spat forth a small collection of DNC talking points, without any reference to his own thoughts on the matter.
When someone endorses another solely in terms of the Party Line, it is fair to question the authenticity of the event, and to speculate that its true nature is along the lines of a selling out and rent seeking.
We wish Mr. Powell luck in his new career, which will proceed in whatever direction it will take, I am certain neither noticing nor caring that my respect for the man and his judgment stands revoked.
And, as per my SOP, I continue to be amused at those who can simultaneously hold the contradictory idea that Sarah Palin has insufficient experience to be president while Barack Obama somehow does.
"Sarah Palin has insufficient experience to be president while Barack Obama somehow does."
It's not about experience, per se geek, it's about another word...a word which the right has been very successful, with propaganda, at blocking the left from using lest they get heaps of "victims" thrown at them.
You're lecturing us about the meaning of words? Goddamn, but that's funny. Pathetic in the extreme, too, but good for a laugh.
Colin Powell endorsing Obama is not the least bit surprising. Both are liberals.
It's not about experience, per se geek, it's about another word...a word which the right has been very successful, with propaganda, at blocking the left from using lest they get heaps of "victims" thrown at them.
"Abortion"?
Propaganda: (n) Somebody saying something you don't like.
I am not at all surprised that Powell endorsed Obama - The One. I always thought that Powell is one of those strictly political generals and knew who not to piss off. When the press sniffed out the My Lai massacre in Vietnam before it became the crisis for the military the army decided to do an investigation. They appointed a young lieutenant to investigate to see what happened. It was clear that the intent was to whitewash the event. The appointed Lt. did not talk to anyone on the ground at My Lai nor the helicopter pilot or copilet who inserted themselves and their helicopter between the troops who were killing the Vietmanese and the troops. The only people who the Lt. interviewed were in the chain of command who wanted the whole thing to go away and most assuredly did not want to see evidence that the incident actually took place. The young Lt.'s report vidicated the military in finding that no such massacre had taken place. That Lt. is General Powell. In my opinion he placed his career above his oath to duty.
There are strong indications that he was an affirmative action candidate when he was selected for promotion to Brigadier General.
Jim, in the higher ranks of the military it is mostly political, don't piss off the generals. Look at how long it took and what it took for Colonel McMaster to be promoted to general. He pissed off people with his book and by being successful with his approach to dealing with Iraq.
Powell has been a moderate/liberal "Republican" forever. The fact that he spent time at State probably didn't help, and then there is the whole race issue. It is pretty sad really. He just sold out all his previous comrades to be doomed to having "that one" as their CiC.
I remember reading a "human interest" article about Colin Powell in which he was getting a good used car for his son, a Volvo, it's a safe car - Colin likes Volvos - he's gotta be a Liberal.
I think it was this one:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200408u/powell
Dude, my other car is a Volvo. The US marketing spin gave them the liberalWeenie/soccer mom rep. The truth is...with anything other than the enviroGreenSuckass drivetrain...they're rockets.
After Colin sold out the administration on the Valarie Plame nonsense and hid Richard Armatage behind his skirt, nothing he does or says surprises me in the least.
Eagle 1
Valerie Plame "nonsense?"
Well, if you call outing a CIA agent, whose job it was to track loose nukes (i.e. actually protect our country from devastating attacks as opposed to the nonsense the right views as protection), for the reasons of controlling propaganda....then yes, it is was nonsense.
Ok Mark, Lets start with the fact that she was already "out". Her name AND profession had been already been published in the DC "Who's Who". Second, Armatage was the one who "leaked" her name to the press, not Scooter Libby or Karl Rove and that fact was known to Patrick Fitzgerald within two days of the opening of the investigation. The rest of the year-plus fishing expedition and the hundreds of thousands if not million dollar cost make it NONSENSE Mark.
If you cannot be bothered with the truth then you had best be advised to do the anatomically impossible.
Eagle 1
.........and the fact that Colin Powell also knew this at the same time, yet said not one word is a disgrace. Your buddy plays dirty politics with the worst of them after not getting his way. You really should read some of the many accounts of his views leading up to the start of the Iraq War to get some perspective.
Eagle 1
Eagle, I think you might want to spend some time looking into the case a little more. Not sure where you get your information from but Rove was talking about it right around the time that Armitage was as well. They all were because Cheney had written a note on the NYT editorial about Plame and given it to Libby...also at the same time as Armitage. This is a fact.
"If you cannot be bothered with the truth then you had best be advised to do the anatomically impossible."
The truth as your ideology dictates? Yeah, I don't think there is anything truthful about that.
Have you read her book?
http://www.amazon.com/Fair-Game-Agent-Betrayed-Government/dp/1416537627/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224532315&sr=1-1
It did happen to her so she is a primary source. Will you listen to her side?
Look who is fixated on accusing others of idealogical ridgidity! Look in the mirror Mark. She and her husband have been proven to be liars, (maybe I need to type that in boldface for you Mark)LIARS, testifying to one thing when there are legal consequnces, ie in front of Congress, and another in their "memoirs".
My recommendation to you stands Mark.
Eagle 1
The question I've been asking has been, "Does this mean Colin Powell is no longer the 'House Slave' of the Bush administration?"...
Eagle, Markadoofus just loves conspiracy theories and will adopt any such theory if it slanders the other side. The fact that his pet theories cannot explain all the facts, especially the ones that refute them, is something his three functioning neurons cannot grasp.
In Re: Volvos -
Don Gwinn just picked up a nice used 1994 850 Turbo.
I've met the man. He's no liberal!
Kevin, my younger brother was a Parts Manager at an auto dealership for over 30 years, almost all of which was with Volvo. Now he runs a Volvo salvage yard, a very clean, efficient, capitalist enterprise. His politics match mine and always have. His wife has nearly always (of course!) driven a Volvo, and her politics match his.
So much for jumping to conclusions. Fact is, Volvos are good, dependable transportation, and transportation is what vehicles are for.
Eagle 1:
Markadelphia has also been proven to be a liar. This might be why he feels such a kindreds spirit to Wilson/Plame.
The difference between Wilson's Congressional testimony, and his NYT editorial and Plame's book has been pointed out to Mark repeatedly.
Doesn't matter. Their story must be true. Because it damages Bush. A commentator here really summed up Mark well - I'll see if I can get them to come post, I don't do it justice. I Grok it when they explain it.
Markadelphia: (And no, I haven't forgotten your admitted lies.)
It did happen to her so she is a primary source. Will you listen to her side?
Could you at least exhibit basic decency and note when people point things out to you. Such as "primary sources."
But we know her side, Mark. What you're talking about is her propaganda. Quite the secretive CIA agent. Her "story" doesn't match the facts as we knew them then, as we know them now, and most importantly: Her "story" conflicts with his _under oath_ testimony.
Somebody's lying. It could be the one risking a 10 year prison sentence, or it could be the one risking a spot on the NYT bestseller list. Most of us can judge the relative merit of those based on that. You can't.
Well I guess I took the bait.....I'm a daily reader here but don't comment much and hadn't seen Mark's comments on this subject before. I've seen plenty of his intransigence on other subjects though. I did notice however that he hasn't been able dispute any of the facts surrounding the case. And they say WE'RE mind numbed robots?!!!!!
Eagle 1
Eagle, you can understand a lot about him by reading this comment and the whole thread in which it is embedded, followed by this comment and its thread. To really grasp it all would require a shitload of reading, starting about eighteen months ago, but these two comments summarize all that nicely. They're my comments, and I stand by them.
I remember reading a "human interest" article about Colin Powell in which he was getting a good used car for his son, a Volvo, it's a safe car - Colin likes Volvos - he's gotta be a Liberal.
Well damn, kiss my ass and call me a librul. I got one for my son too. What do you plan to do for your teenager - hand him the keys to a Camaro and a bottle of Jack Daniels?
Failing to understand Markadelphia is failing to understand a not insignificant slice of the populace.
Whether this causes you to gasp, smile or consider suicide says more about you then it does him/them.
Wow, my head hurts!
Eagle 1
I've heard some folks claim something along the order of "Well MY truth is......" as if that has any bearing on reality. I guess when you run out of a reasoned argument you can just make shit up and "Lalalalalala I can't hear you" rules the world.
Eagle 1
Eagle 1:
In truth, it's part of that with Markadelphia, and it's part just flat out deception.
From the latter thread that DJ linked:
Did you call the bank where Moore got the gun? I did. That's not the answer they gave me.
Of course, if you've purchased a gun, you know you can't just pick one up. As Mark knows - we've told him several times.
He's a busy guy, perhaps he forgot.
But if it was just being busy, he'd have been reminded at that point. And acknowledge it. Instead, he just... leaves. To come back later and again, toss out something deliberately wrong. (In his "defense", it's because we've got bad motivations. So he discounts anything we say, no matter how factual, in favor of those who claim to have better intentions (in his estimation), no matter how many times they can be demonstrated to be lying.)
That's deliberate, it's dishonest, and it's fundamental to his character. His "Truth" as he sees it by definition (and demonstration) requires one to lie to get there.
Same for "primary sources" (which is really only correctly used in historical contexts) and the Frosts, poster children and poster parents for S-CHIP. No matter how many times you point something out to him - even if he concedes it at some point, he'll ignore his concesson later to bring back up the disgraced and disproven point.
My teenager is gonna have to buy his own car if he wants one, like I did.
Eagle 1,
"If you cannot be bothered with the truth then you had best be advised to do the anatomically impossible."
Are you suggesting that it's actually impossible for Markadelphia to remove his head from the warm dark place where it currently resides?
;)
Huh.
That's scenario I hadn't considered......
Eagle 1
"It's not about experience, per se geek, it's about another word...a word which the right has been very successful, with propaganda, at blocking the left from using lest they get heaps of 'victims' thrown at them."
This from a guy apparently enchanted with the candidate whose campaign and supporters rushed to demonize and assassinate the character of a plumber, picked at random by the candidate, for daring to disagree with The One.
And yet that same candidate has the balls to whine about the "negativity" of his opponent.
The major media did more investigation of Joe the plumber in 48 hours than they have done of Barack Obama in TWO YEARS. And the only job Joe is trying for is owner of his plumbing company. He's not trying to be the guy who tells the top military force on the planet when and where to fight and die. He's not trying to be the guy who tells you how much of your check gets CONFISCATED by Uncle Sugar so he can give it to his pet causes and political cronies. And yet he has had a barrage of investigators coming up with reasons why his opinion shouldn't be trusted, and the man he disagreed with who IS trying for that job still has YEARS of his past that are glossed over and an incredible volume of records he refuses to release.
But oh no, THAT's not "propaganda", is it?
What's that old saying? Something about motes and beams, I'll think of it in a minute....
*snicker*
Note: All avatars and any images or other media embedded in comments were hosted on the JS-Kit website and have been lost; references to haloscan comments have been partially automatically remapped, but accuracy is not guaranteed and corrections are solicited.
If you notice any problems with this page or wish to have your home page link updated, please contact John Hardin <jhardin@impsec.org>