The Smallest Minority

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Title: Movie Review: An American Carol
Excerpt: This is a reworking of Dickens’ A Christmas Carol, with Michael Moore Malone standing in for Scrooge and the Fourth of July (Which Malone wants to shut down) standing for Christmas.
[Rotten Tomatoes]
[IMDB]
What follows I crossposted (in sligh...
Blog name: ricketyclick

"if they want to make money, they ought to cater to the audience that has it."

Wow...really, Kevin?

Mark:

Before you try and insult anybody else's intelligence...
One and and another. Still waiting on you.

How about either be "busy" or deal with those first, before you go insulting people? Those two threads show you shouldn't be flinging imprecations at anybody at the moment.

Q: (by a person of limitless stupidity) "Why do you rob banks?"

A: (by Willie Sutton, a famous bank robber) "Because that's where the money is."

Some people need to have, not just the merely obvious, but even the astoundingly obvious explained to them.

It's interesting that you both assumed that I was insulting Kevin. I believe I was asking him a question based on a statement which shocked me to be quite honest.

It's interesting that you both assumed that I was insulting Kevin.
Not really. We have been dealing with you for over a year.

I believe
That should have been your first hint you were wrong.

I took my wife and we went and saw An American Carol this afternoon. It was better than I thought it would be and not as bad as I feared. About 75 to 100 people in the theater. The movie was funny in spots and lagged in others. I hope you all go see it to support those brave enough to make it. The message sometimes overwhelmed the comedy but it is a good message. I think the problem is we are so sick of the liberal agenda that what should be funny hits too close to home and we realize how far we have fallen. A solid 2nd amendment push and blasting the ACLU lawyer Zombies with Trenchguns is worth the ticket.

C+

...a statement which shocked me...

Which part shocked you? The "audience" part, or the "has it" part?

C'mon, Kevin. He's shocked, shocked I tell you, that people might want to make money. They're s'posed to wanna give it to the gubmint, like good patriots, y'see.

Mark,

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that what has you shocked is one possible meaning of the initial statement: that business should cater to the rich alone.

This of course goes against the grain of helping the little guy, et cetera.

Yet the history of commercial progress, both technological and services, can be summarized as people trying new products out on the rich, perfecting them, and then selling them to everybody else once they were able to do so without going bankrupt.

Catering to the rich benefits the rest of us. In the financial industry, I see this firsthand all the time. Investment products which ten years ago were available only to people with tens of millions of dollars can now be used by the middle class.

Dammit!

(I fixed it. No worries. - Ed.)

Mastiff:

Catering to the rich benefits the rest of us. In the financial industry, I see this firsthand all the time. Investment products which ten years ago were available only to people with tens of millions of dollars can now be used by the middle class.

It's a divide by zero error with him on things like that. Remember, the result of capitalism isn't "perfect". Neither is socialism in whichever guise. So they're "equal". Neither is better, neither is worse.

Despite the fact that the poorest in this and similar countries have standards of living exceeding all but the richest anywhere else in the world. Homeless guys have blogs today. We've had to change the meaning of the word "poverty", since we now have the "impoverished" damaging their health by getting too much nourishment.

...

All of that will bounce off his noggin, as he uses his capitalist computer system on a capitalist internet connection on a ... etc. etc.

assume that what has you shocked

I'm presuming that he's trying to ignore and leave the threads where he's obviously lied and also very obviously destroyed his credibility, so he want's a short soundbite to forget the past and "start over". To get back into the "gang". He's climbing into the control tower to await the DC-3s.
Remember, to his mind, words and intent are more important than past performance and actions.

My favorite Hollywood commentator, Dirty Harry, has a review up.

He's also posted an interview with Jon 'Washington' Voight in which he expresses his opinion of Obama.

Remember, to his mind, words and intent are more important than past performance and actions.

Which explains why communism continually gets a pass with Mark's type of person. It has good intentions!

Sarah:
Exact-a-mundo!

"Which part shocked you? The "audience" part, or the "has it" part?"

The "has it" part. It seemed similar to comments in the past, made by liberals and Democrats, that you would interpret as being elitist. Maybe I have misunderstood but that what it seems like. Also, there are plenty of people that are liberal that have money and go to movies.

As to some of the rest of the items, communism never gets a pass from me. Clearly, it doesn't work. Of course, when you are as far right as most of you are then everything to the left is communism and that's where I have a problem.

I do plan on going to see this film with last in line sometime in the next week or so. I have always thought the Zuckers are hilarious and own all of their DVDS.

Based on the previews, the one thing that I thought was interesting was the whole concept of perception. Conservatives think that Michael Moore is unpatriotic, thus the spoof on him trying to ban the 4th of July.

We have somehow become a nation that is not allowed to question things anymore. Moore has questioned big business, guns, American foreign policy, and our health care system. All of these things should be continually questioned. But because of the money and power behind them, he is a "liar" and a "traitor." That's how the propaganda machine has to spin it because critical thought on these topics is not allowed.

This is how the right generally operates. They hear some things that contradicts their belief system and its

"he's obviously lied and also very obviously destroyed his credibility"

and the issue itself is conveniently forgotten. Hence, why we have the country we do right now.

I think we all will agree that our country is headed for disaster. We also agree that the Democrats are to blame, in the case of myself for being spineless turds. We also blame the Republicans are as well but most of you blame them because...they acted like liberals. That's where we part ways. There are fundamental flaws with

"Catering to the rich benefits the rest of us"

20 out of the last 28 years have been driven by a conservative agenda. Even the eight years of Clinton saw a move to the right (repeal of Glass Stegall, Barney Frank's antics) for some Democrats. We've catered to the rich quite nicely in the last 28 years under Reagan, Bush, and Bush. Take a look at how we are doing now and tell me again how well it works. Take a look at how the rest of the world is moving forward and we are moving backward. Anyone take a trip to China or India recently? Take some time to live outside of the bubble and I don't think you will be happy with what is happening. Of course, by saying all of this and being critical, I am sure that I am a "traitor" too because its not the "right" kind of criticism.
What we need is more ideas and less beliefs. It's going to be real hard to change some people's beliefs in this country but, at this point, we don't have a choice.

When the last eight years have contained what can best be described as a "Joe Six Pack" approach to foreign policy and strategy like this...

Admiral Fallon: Mr President, what is our strategy for Iran?
President Bush: They're assholes.

it really shows why we have fallen so far behind in the world on so many levels.

When the only tool in your tool kit is a hammer, everything is a nail.

Also, there are plenty of people that are liberal that have money and go to movies.

And they stayed away from those films in droves, did they not?

As for the rest of the comment, I'll leave that to others.

I saw the movie a few hours ago. Very disappointing. There were a few very funny moments, but not nearly enough -and I was very predisposed to liking this movie. [I]Airplane![/I] still makes my sides hurt to this day, even though I must have seen it a hundred times, and no one enjoys laughing at idiot liberals more then me.

I give it a D. If it cracks the top 10 this weekend it will be by luck.

Well, I gave it a 7.5 out of 10. That's a solid "C" in my book. I figure it'll be in the top 10 this weekend, then fall off rapidly.

"he's obviously lied and also very obviously destroyed his credibility"
and the issue itself is conveniently forgotten. Hence, why we have the country we do right now.

So we have "the country" (spoken negatively) we have now because people don't remember things.
And as a result of THAT, you're going to ... ignore losing your credibility and attack others.

Thanks, Mark. I didn't think you could top your loss of credibility in those other two threads, but you just did. Wow. Just, wow. Does the sheer hypocrisy of what you just said not penetrate your cranium at all? That the country is bad, so therefore it's OK for you to do it, and nevermind that anyway?


Conservatives think that Michael Moore is unpatriotic, thus the spoof on him trying to ban the 4th of July.

And again with you telling us what we think.
At least you didn't deny all the evidence supporting that Moore's been lying. Or bring up all those reasons that people won't think it's outrageous. Nono, just leave all that out.

We have somehow become a nation that is not allowed to question things anymore.

Bullshit. More lies from you. Bloody hell, how was Moore NOT ALLOWED to make his mockumentaries? It's not as bad as your "slavery" misuse, but "Not allowed" means something. Moore has never been denied his ability to stand up and lie his ass off.

But because of the money and power behind them, he is a "liar" and a "traitor."

It's because he .. wait for it.. LIED. Traitor is harder to be so clear about. But suffice it to say, he provided succor to our enemies and attempted to demoralize and harm our people.

That's how the propaganda machine has to spin it because critical thought on these topics is not allowed.

You wouldn't have any idea, you're utterly incapable of understanding basic logic . You can't even comprehend that "critical thinking" requires far more than the minimal ability to be honest in your assessments (which you lack.)

This is how the right generally operates. They hear some things that contradicts their belief system

In the entire time you've been commenting here, you've never, not once, been able to prove that. Hell, you can't prove anything. I brought up S-CHIP and you did it again.
Who here is citing facts, and who here is refusing to listen to anything that challenges their belief system?

Wait, you'll lie about that, too. Forget I asked you.

I don't trust Moore, because he's lied his whole career. Nothing he says I can trust without outside verification. During filming of "Roger and Me", Moore met twice with Smith, including a 20 minute (on camera) interview. We've cited you chapter and verse on lies he's made. You can't pick up a rifle at a bank. There was no flight of bin Ladens out of the country 9/12/2001.

Those are facts Mark, and after all the attempts to explain this, in glorious, excruciating detail, that you can say that Moore's called a liar because we don't like his opinion... it illustrates who's following a narrative here.
You can't understand the real world, Mark. You follow a narrative in your head - and when life doesn't work according to your narrative, you can't reconcile the two, so you ignore where it doesn't.

I think we all will agree that our country is headed for disaster.

You've said this I think 3 times. Every time I've said No, I do not.

Yet your narrative is that we all do, so thus, ignore that Unix-Jedi says "No, I don't."

20 out of the last 28 years have been driven by a conservative agenda.
Bullshit. Again. Bush has had very little "conservative" about his administration. Again, proven, linked, facts.. all out the Window for Mark! That's not what the story says!

It's going to be real hard to change some people's beliefs in this country but, at this point, we don't have a choice.

After over a year of demonstrating, over, and over, and over, and over, and over and ... that your sources aren't reliable, that you look for people who agree with you, that your sources are opinions without facts, that there are whole WORLDS of FACTS that you blithely wave away in favor of some simpleminded "summation" that you "think explains it"... Yeah. In fact, some people will never be changed.

Especially those who can't understand the difference between truth and lies. Facts and opinion.

When the only tool in your tool kit is a hammer, everything is a nail.

How's the bamboo radar set working?

"how was Moore NOT ALLOWED to make his mockumentaries?"

Unix, c'mon. You believe that he is a liar so....mission accomplished.

"he provided succor to our enemies and attempted to demoralize and harm our people. "

Our...enemies? Demoralize and harm our people? Alright, Colonel Flagg...

"You can't pick up a rifle at a bank."

Did you call the bank where Moore got the gun? I did. That's not the answer they gave me.

"There was no flight of bin Ladens out of the country 9/12/2001."

Maybe not. They were shuttled out, though. No one is sure of the date because there are conflicting reports that it was 9-14, 9-18, or 9-19. I find this odd, considering the first thing any investigator does when looking into a murder is ask a person's family about him. And this was even bigger...a national security issue...and these people were given safe passage? Why?

"No, I do not."

Really? Wow...and you think I am out of touch.

"your sources aren't reliable"

Few, if any, are when they don't conform to The Belief System.

"Catering to the rich benefits the rest of us"

20 out of the last 28 years have been driven by a conservative agenda.

I'll be damned if I know what broad government policy has to do with deciding where to target your products.

You have a remarkable talent for weaving together non-sequitors into a superficially plausible tapestry that has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand.

28 years ago, the first hard drive was sold by Seagate. It had 5 MB of capacity. It was also very expensive.

You, sir, are a goof.

"how was Moore NOT ALLOWED to make his mockumentaries?"

Unix, c'mon. You believe that he is a liar so....mission accomplished.

Do you speak English?

Do you know what "NOT ALLOWED" means? It has nothing to do with social disapproval.

Do you speak English?
Do you know what "NOT ALLOWED" means? It has nothing to do with social disapproval.

1) Debatable. He certainly doesn't understand the concept of definitions.

2) Oh, you think that's bad enough, wait til he says "Slavery" again. To Mark, having a contract is slavery.

Do you speak English?

Markadelphia epitomizes Lewis Carrol's Humpty-Dumpty in that department:

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."

"how was Moore NOT ALLOWED to make his mockumentaries?"
Unix, c'mon. You believe that he is a liar so....mission accomplished.

I believe he's a liar.. for .. lying. Repeatedly. Serially. Without shame. Without correction.

And this is somehow Republicans, Conservatives, and "the right's" fault. According to you.

Who [you] is also a liar. Right there. Again. You claimed he "was not allowed", despite there was never any attempt to "not allow" him. Your claim is a lie. I've been cutting you slack for over a year, that whatever is wrong with your understanding of English, whatever issues you have with words, meanings might be innocent mistakes. Not anymore. You've declared yourelf to be dishonest, and I'm done with granting you dispensations and making allowances.

Nothing was done to prevent Moore from making his films. Nothing.
Not. A. Thing.

Your claims that people categorizing his lies, arguing with his conclusions are involved in an conspiracy is a base libel. (Which is a type of lie.)

"You can't pick up a rifle at a bank."
Did you call the bank where Moore got the gun? I did. That's not the answer they gave me.

Nope. They're not an FFL. Moore *picked up the rifle at an FFL first*. He took it to the bank for the "money shot". The bank gives you a certificate that you take to the gun shop - the FFL - to get your rifle.

I don't need to call them to understand that. When you called them they told you they were an FFL And he walked in *that day*, deposited the money and got the gun?

How many 4473s have *YOU* filled out?

Try and dodge and weave and pick up the goalposts all you want. The reason you can't understand why we have a problem with Moore lying is You're a liar, too.

And this is the fundamental difference that you can't understand, and it's why there's no way you can possibly (correctly) teach "critical thinking". Moore lies as a simple matter of course. Propaganda doesn't cause me to think that - I thought "Roger and Me" was actually somewhat inspired. (If really mean to the supposed average person Moore claims to stand up for.)
Until I found out that the central thesis, that Roger Smith wasn't willing to discuss GM and it's accountability.. was a lie.

As was the title of "Bowling for Columbine" - the shooters at Columbine (who I won't name) didn't go bowling that morning. Too bad, it's such a nice title, let's just say they did.
After all, some people will believe anything they see.

Maybe not. They were shuttled out, though.

Yes, and JFK died. In a nursing home in Florida last year. What? Maybe not? Well, he died, though.

They were shuttled out, though.

The claim that Moore makes is that they were allowed to fly when only military, life-saving, and emergency flights were allowed.. Once you say "maybe not" you admit his entire claim is false. Facts. Facts. Definable facts. There is a claim. It's demonstrably false. Thus his point is irrevocably damaged. There may be other good points.

I find this odd, considering the first thing any investigator does when looking into a murder is ask a person's family about him.

It might be odd. You don't have the capability to discuss why that makes sense, and why it might not.

BUT YOU JUST PICKED UP THE GODDAMNED GOALPOSTS AGAIN.

You don't get to win by moving the goalposts after your play. "Hey! 6 yards! TOUCHDOWN!" "No, you're on the 48." "TOUCHDOWWWWWWNNNN!!!!!!!!! You right wing nutcase! You're fell for the conspiracy!"

"No, I do not."
Really? Wow...and you think I am out of touch.

No, I think you think almost identically to Michelle Obama.
And factually you're a liar. Remember?

To some of us, facts and accomplishments matter. Positively and negatively. Honor, truth, honesty.

Now that you're not busy, you can go clear up that little "misunderstanding", right? Ignoring it and attempting to feign honest debate won't work.

Unix, DJ, have you read my (very old) piece Liberal v. Conservative: Both are Necessary?

"John Doe" in that piece was a PolySci student by the name of Marriah Star. Now as a PhD candidate, he teaches.

Mr. Star and Markadelphia have much, much in common.

If you haven't read it, you might want to give it a once-over.

And examine Mr. Star's website in some detail as well. Lots of broken links, but still a fascinating spelunking expedition.

UPDATE:

Oh hell, there's LOTS of stuff to study!

Kevin:

It's been a looong while.

Past behavior has been proven to be a good predictor of future behavior. Why would anyone simply ignore it? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Liberals, it seems, can be fooled every time?

Hrm. Yeah, I see why you mentioned it. :)

No, it's a good thesis you have there. Thanks for the reminder. Speaking of which, it's about time you remind *me* about "Try it again, only HARDER!" :)

It's going to be real hard to change some people's beliefs in this country but, at this point, we don't have a choice.

Ah, yes, I think I just read something about that.. :

"To Liberals, if they believe the cause is worthy, well then they must immediately coerce the rest of the population into supporting this obviously worthy cause."

Ayup.

"Unix, DJ, have you read my (very old) piece Liberal v. Conservative: Both are Necessary?"

I have now. Some day, er, I mean month, I'll sit down with a vat of hot tea and read more of your essays. Right now, it's October, and the outdoors are calling.

"Mr. Star and Markadelphia have much, much in common."

And they have one gigantic difference, to wit, Mr. Star can actually think. He gets things wrong, mind you, but he actually thinks in the process, and it shows.

In your fisking, I like this most of all (emphasis added):

"It seems to me that the objective criteria is: is your version of "truth" consistent with observable reality? If not, it doesn't matter if you're Liberal or Conservative, you're wrong."

How many times have I stated this, in my own words, in your parlor? Reality is what it is regardless of what you think about it, and regardless of whether or not you like it. Understanding that, and admitting its truth, is the beginning of rational thought.

Markadelphia's blitherings are completely at odds with this. He appears to not understand and/or to accept the truth of it. After examinating his blitherings over many long months, I think that appearance is not evidence that he doesn't understand it, rather it is evidence that he cannot admit that he understands it.

I think he is driven by a flaw in his character that he cannot overcome. He simply cannot admit any significant error. He has puffed up his delicate little ego such that even the tiniest pinprick would burst it, and so he is the adult equivalent of a six-year-old child screaming "Nuh-uh!" whenever reality nudges his bubble.

And so, we all can demonstrate to him interminably that he is incorrect in any number of ways on any number of subjects, we can prove to him by verifiable facts that his version of "truth" is inconsistent with observable reality, and we will never convince him of anything of any significance. Each attempt will simply endanger his self-esteem even more, such that the risk to him of admitting reality will be even greater. Each time, he will not be able to avoid the challenge, and so his blitherings will become ever more convoluted, ever more twisted and self-contradictory, and ever more in denial of reality.

The clearest evidence of the depths of his problem is what we have all witnessed recently. He has demonstrably lied to us, making statements that he knew were not true when he made them. He cannot admit they were not true, he cannot admit they were lies, he cannot admit that it was wrong for him to make them, and he behaves as if his lies make him the injured party in the exchange.

Now, despite U-J's repeated reminders, he simply ignores that bit of history. The analogy that illustrates it is that if he ignores Mommie's demands to come in the house, well that's the same as if she never made them, right? If he doesn't admit it, then it didn't happen.

And the subtle but telling detail that validates this analysis is that his behavior here, his denial of reality, provides no discernible benefit to him other than defense of his self-esteem. If he were a politician with a party and a career to defend, or a criminal with his own freedom to defend, well, it might be understandable. But he is only an anonymous teacher with nothing at risk but his own opinion of himself. He is drowing in self-delusion. Protecting his ego from self-admitted error is what drives him.

He is an intellectual child, intellectually and emotionally crippled to the point that nothing short of very competent professional therapy can help him. The longer he goes on, the less likely it is that he'll get it, and the more shattering that therapy will be for him if he does. His condition is self-inflicted and thus he is worthy of pity, but not of respect.

On truth and facts:

http://striderweb.com/blog/2008/09/facts-is-facts/

"As to your comments, DJ, I have no problem admitting fault or even criminal activity on the left side of the aisle."

How magnanimous of you. My comments are, and have long been, that you cannot admit YOUR OWN ERRORS. You demonstrate it almost daily.

"There's plenty of it and, in fact, more of it on their side if you take the totality of US History into account. It's only in the last few decades that the GOP has seen fit to try to outdo them."

And more, they have lost, big time, by trying to emulate their opponents. Goddamn, teacher boy, WE have been telling YOU that for a long time.

You keep trying and trying to paint us with the broad brush of being Conservatives and/or (especially) being Republicans. You do so in order to paint us with the attributes you ascribe to those groups. You seem unable to understand, despite being told repeatedly for two goddamned years, that those of us who comment regularly here are, with rare exceptions, NEITHER.

In general, most of us here don't like either party, but at the moment, we find the Dimocrats to be MUCH more dangerous to our liberty. Right now, the problem is the Dimocrats, but the solution is NOT the Republicans. As my brother is prone to say, All You Can Do Is All You Can Do, and the subject of this post by Kevin stands a good chance of increasing what we can do.

Good heavens. I pasted that last comment into the wrong comment thread. It should have been here.

Beg pardon, everyone.