JS-Kit/Echo comments for article at http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2009/12/first-law-abiding-citizen-now-harry.html (32 comments)

  Tentative mapping of comments to original article, corrections solicited.

jsid-1259807796-617122  Aaron at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 02:36:36 +0000

Looks excellent! I have to put my two cents in for what I think is one of his best, but least well known films, The Last Valley.
Written and Directed by James Clavell and set during the Thirty Years' War.
Caine leads a band of mercenaries into a peaceful village untouched by the conflict, only to find strife lurking under the surface, as his men occupy and make winter quarters there.


jsid-1259810175-617124  emdfl at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 03:16:15 +0000

Looks like a modern version of the old Bronson vigilante movies.


jsid-1259813686-617128  juris imprudent at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 04:14:46 +0000

Aaron, I remember that movie too. Haven't seen it in years. Excellent and under-rated as you say.


jsid-1259815152-617131  Phil R. at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 04:39:12 +0000

I've seen it. It's good. I'd recommend it to y'all.

OK, coming out of Hemingway-sentence mode for a second, let me try actually saying something.

Critics, and others whose reactions to the movie I've seen, heard or read, have justly praised its realism. The title character is categorically not a super-powered vigilante straight out of anyone's wish-fulfilment dreams, a fact which gives the film most of its power. If Caine's character were in any way cartoonish or realer-than-real, it would give audiences an excuse to write off his antagonists as being the same, and to dismiss the film's message, which is that the social order in the big cities of this country is coming apart at the seams.

The fact that the film has to work so hard to make the audience take this message away, even though people in the know will all tell you that its portrayal of the inner cities is dead-on accurate, echoes and amplifies a part of my personal reaction to it, which is that I've been very lucky in the kind of estate I happened to grow up on.

The fact is that the social fabric of the UK is rotting from its innermost, densest and darkest parts outward, so that from the outside, like the trunk of a rotten tree, it appears solid all the way through. Indeed, the spread of the rot has hitherto been so slow, that it's easy to find a place on the periphery where it's almost completely invisible. If you don't use recreational drugs, or live in a big city (or even if you just live in a more fashionable area of one), if you confine your going-out-at-night to certain areas, it's possible that you'll see no evidence of the way the wheels are coming off, at least first-hand, and you'll be able to convince yourself that, for instance, you've got time to finish your doctorate before you get out. Get out NOW! ;) (The film also makes, en passant the point that people in authority have a vested interest in keeping it this way, because, whether elected or not, they know their heads are in danger of rolling if a large number of decent Britishers ever figure out what's going on.)

OK, so I've made it all sound very dull with my mini-analysis in the best language an A-level in English Literature can produce, so in closing let me say that, the above notwithstanding, the movie is also entertaining. It's just got a message. If anyone actually shows it o'er there, I'd say it's well worth the price of admission.


jsid-1259815442-617132  Rob at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 04:44:02 +0000

B b but there are no handguns in Britain. They are banned.

How can I suspend disbelief?

/sarcasm off


jsid-1259816188-617133  Britt at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 04:56:28 +0000

This trailer keyed up a memory. Has anyone else ever read The Veteran by Frederick Forsyth? I won't spoil it, but the eponymous short story that leads off the anthology is similar to this, and has a very satisfying ending.


jsid-1259817536-617135  Sarah at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 05:18:56 +0000

This may be a dumb question, but what is a "sink estate"?


jsid-1259817728-617137  Britt at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 05:22:08 +0000

but what is a "sink estate"?

__________

I just substituted "housing project".


jsid-1259820539-617138  Kevin S. at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 06:08:59 +0000

Council estates. Govt owned housing let out to unemployed, old aged pensioners and other low income folks. British verion of the projects.


jsid-1259822094-617139  Britt at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 06:34:54 +0000

Mixing decent old folks with shiftless layabouts unwilling to work?

What could possibly go wrong?


jsid-1259824346-617140  Moshe Ben-David at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 07:12:26 +0000

Folks, that's what will come to the USA if we don't stand up to the schemes of the Leftist Democrats and draw a line in the sand. No to socialized medicine, no to cap and tax, no to all the "liberal" nanny state garbage. "What are you willing to do?"


jsid-1259826452-617141  Will at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 07:47:32 +0000

Oh, yeah. The Veteran. Good story. I might still have that collection of short stories it was in. All good. Worth reading for sure. The Vet was the reason I bought the book.


jsid-1259834629-617143  knirirr at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 10:03:49 +0000

It looks like it will available fairly soon from Amazon.

Phil R. is right in that there are many areas where there is no sign whatsoever of this sort of thing. Presumably a large proportion of the population do not live in such conditions and therefore do not really know what is going on. It may be that we'll all go downhill like the sink estates but on the other hand, we may recover.

people in authority have a vested interest in keeping it this way, because, whether elected or not, they know their heads are in danger of rolling if a large number of decent Britishers ever figure out what's going on.

Indeed. So, being decent and having figured out what's going on do we get out in case it gets any worse (abandoning our country to a possible awful fate) or do we stay and attempt to roll the heads of authority, somehow?


jsid-1259846905-617144  Lord T at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:28:25 +0000

There seems to be a few books on this subject over the years and lately a couple of films.

With a bit of luck it will put ideas in peoples heads.


jsid-1259847231-617145  Bram at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:33:51 +0000

During the 18th and 19th centuries, British inner cities were also horrendous, crime-ridden, cesspools. Gangs, drugs, crime, sewage in the streets, undesirable immigrants, unemployed thugs, etc... The Britain we all reminisce about existed only briefly during the 20th century.

The difference was that the government back then favored and protected the middle / merchant class and above. Those living in country and on the periphery effectively ran the nation. The inner city was just the cost of doing business - when they got too problematic, shiploads of criminals and undesirables were transport to various colonies - voluntarily and otherwise.

Now the inner-city scum seem to run the nation and are protected by the government. Those on the periphery are choosing transport.


jsid-1259848163-617146  Ken at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:49:23 +0000

"What are you willing to do?"

Some things it don't pay to advertise. ;)


jsid-1259849513-617147  Sendarius at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 14:11:53 +0000

Here in Oz, the situation is somewhat similar. I had lunch with a former colleague today - just to catch up. We chose a suburban shopping center 5 minutes from one of the city's universities.

From my observations during lunch:
1. All the teenage girls that I saw were pregnant or mothers already.
2. The major portion of the young males income was spent on body-piercings and tattoos
3. None of the afore-mentioned had heard of personal hygiene or clean clothes
4. All of them could speak - loudly - but it was an English dialect that didn't just VEER to the scatological and profane, it assumed a parking orbit, descended to the surface, and ROLLED in it.

I swear that I didn't shoot any of them, but I am not sure that they had the wit to notice if I had.

If our future depends on such as these, then western civilisation here in Oz is doomed.


jsid-1259854785-617157  Kevin Baker at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:39:45 +0000

Phil! Good to know you're still out there! How goes the Ph.D?


jsid-1259858071-617164  Sarah at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 16:34:31 +0000

Council estates. Govt owned housing let out to unemployed, old aged pensioners and other low income folks. British verion of the projects.

I see. So real council estates aren't as nice as where Onslow and Daisy live in Keeping Up Appearances. But Hyacinth probably did make an accurate observation: "How can a place look like this fifty years after the Blitz?"


jsid-1259863713-617172  perlhaqr at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:08:33 +0000

It's like you can actually see GB swirling 'round the drain...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232907/Professional-burglar-jail-sentence-cut-injury-received-work.html


jsid-1259864506-617175  Sarah at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:21:46 +0000

Check out the comments to that article. How far can Brits be pushed before they revolt?


jsid-1259864548-617176  DJ at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:22:28 +0000

"So real council estates aren't as nice as where Onslow and Daisy live in Keeping Up Appearances."

But do they have room for a pony?


jsid-1259865515-617179  Britt at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:38:35 +0000

Check out the comments to that article. How far can Brits be pushed before they revolt?

________________

What will they revolt with?


jsid-1259872261-617190  Kevin S at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:31:01 +0000

I see. So real council estates aren't as nice as where Onslow and Daisy live in Keeping Up Appearances.

Depends. Most towns in Britain have them, owned by the local council. Quality varies from town to town, I guess. I lived in one for a while growing up which wasn't anywhere near as bad as council flats in London, where an aunt of mine lived with her kids.


jsid-1259883148-617211  Russell at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 23:32:28 +0000

"What will they revolt with?"

A stiff upper lip?


jsid-1259883801-617213  Sarah at Thu, 03 Dec 2009 23:43:21 +0000

But do they have room for a pony?

Or a Mercedes and sauna. :)

What will they revolt with?

The Brazilian guy in the article had the right idea -- vodka bottles. Anything. Or maybe all the sane people should just get the frak out of there, and we can send all of our insufferable liberal frakking twits over there.


jsid-1259915869-617242  Phil R. at Fri, 04 Dec 2009 08:37:49 +0000

How goes the Ph.D?

My first peer-reviewed publication and my first conference talk are in various states of lined-up-ness, so all in all it still beats working for a living. How are things outside the ivory towers?

Or maybe all the sane people should just get the frak out of there, and we can send all of our insufferable liberal frakking twits over there.

I've long wished there were some sort of "citizenship swap program", ideally compulsory!


jsid-1259917551-617243  knirirr at Fri, 04 Dec 2009 09:05:51 +0000

Or maybe all the sane people should just get the frak out of there, and we can send all of our insufferable liberal frakking twits over there.

How about doing that the other way around? ;-)


"What will they revolt with?"
A stiff upper lip?


Why not? Something similar worked for Ghandi...


jsid-1259931202-617246  Kevin Baker at Fri, 04 Dec 2009 12:53:22 +0000

Yes, but back then your government (and ours) still had a sense of shame.


jsid-1259944505-617252  knirirr at Fri, 04 Dec 2009 16:35:05 +0000

Yes, but back then your government (and ours) still had a sense of shame.

That is true.
But, at present there is still sufficient respect shown to politicians from the majority of the populace. Should that change then they might start to see the light, at least to some extent.


jsid-1260403007-617572  jim jondxq at Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:56:47 +0000

The movie is available now

Goto www.thepiratebay.org


jsid-1260404899-617576  Kevin Baker at Thu, 10 Dec 2009 00:28:19 +0000

Nah, I'll wait for the DVD.


 Note: All avatars and any images or other media embedded in comments were hosted on the JS-Kit website and have been lost; references to haloscan comments have been partially automatically remapped, but accuracy is not guaranteed and corrections are solicited.
 If you notice any problems with this page or wish to have your home page link updated, please contact John Hardin <jhardin@impsec.org>