The Smallest Minority

Don't count out Kalifornia gun owners. There are some real smart people trapped in that state.

Many would leave but their livelyhood is there. AND, they own one hell of a lot of firearms.

Now we all need to learn from this example and spread it to the entire country.

The Kalifornistanians definitely deserve a hearty round of congratulations for this latest successful civil disobedience exercise... I almost wish I was back there, to take part with them (apart from the higher cost of living, exhorbitant housing, ludicrous gas prices... oh, wait, no I do not ;) ). It is things like this that are going to successfully change our country's cumbersome firearm laws, and the successes they are experiencing in one of the most anti-gun states in the union, I hope, will just be a starting point.

One thing that merits pointing out is that Heller was initially financed by one individual, Robert Levy.

Like capitalism, a small motivated individual or very small group can accomplish quite a bit.

Less,
That's true. Unfortunately, most of the "individuals" are batting for the other side -- Soros, Huffington, etc.

What worked? The state of Calexico hasn't stopped writing or enforcing draconian gun laws. The state just picks people off one at a time. Civil disobience in Cal. while applauldable,is pretty fruitless. If that commie-hole is to be used as an example, It's proof that humans will sit in their own sh-t. rather than wipe their own butt.

If that commie-hole is to be used as an example, It's proof that humans will sit in their own sh-t. rather than wipe their own butt.

Living in California does have a few compensations - for one, you don't live here.

That said, I'll still be very happy the next time the state line is in the rear view mirror of a truck with all my stuff in it.

Au contraire - we sit in the surf on a sunny winter day watching the seals and dolphins play, and let the Ocean wipe our butts. I had the A/C on in the truck today, my entrepreneurial spirit was too hot.

Living in California does have a few compensations - for one, you don't live here.

That said, I'll still be very happy the next time the state line is in the rear view mirror of a truck with all my stuff in it.
juris_imprudent | Email | Homepage | 12.10.08 - 7:21 pm | #------------------------- Yes, me not living in cali. is a perk. But i use to. And, i'm living proof that even someone with a room temperature I.Q. knows a commie-sh-thole when he sees one. Knows when to leave to. Going 20yrs. since i looked at it in the rear-view. It's humorous watching the clueless come to my friends gunshop and drool over things they can't own down there. Wow, you guys can own machine guns? Wow, you guy got hi-cap magazines? I thought those were banned?What a herd.I'm sorry for being harsh on Ca.'s. But the smug,stupidity that comes out of your state. Has a stereotyping affect on those folks that reside there. Good or bad. And it scares ignorant people such as myself.Especially after watching what a herd of Ca.'s can do to a small community. So, when you move, do the the rest of the world a favor. Where ever you decide to lite. Sit down, shut-up, and listen for 6 mos. before you open your mouth. Because nobody really wants to know how you use to do it in the once great state of California. Because it ain't that flipp'in great.

The fundamental flaw in this theory of disobedience in accordance with the law is that all that it takes for you to lose is a change in the law.

Let us say, for the sake of an argument, that California votes to allow, let's say, one semi-automatic gun purchase per individual per year.

What're you gonna do about that? Buy a whole bunch of bolt-actions? Way to give them exactly what they want.

If you're playing by their rules, you're losing.

"The fundamental flaw in this theory of disobedience in accordance with the law is that all that it takes for you to lose is a change in the law."

That does not have to be a flaw. It could be a feature if you consider what that fact could be worth if it and everything it means were made adequately clear to every spectator.

Can someone, without linking to a forum, give us folks who didn't follow this from the beginning a run-down of what is happening?

The links as presented seem to be "We Won! We Won!" OK, you won, what did you win and how?

Ah. It's not "we won," it's "we've figured out another end-run and we're in the process of getting the legal backstop we need to arrange for some mass purchases of things that are (according to the state) illegal in order to dare them to try to stop us."

Incidentally, the comment about Kali "picking us off one at a time" is correct. Part of the point of Calguns was to use the power of the internet and fellow gun owners to raise money to help folks targeted by local DAs so they could afford the legal fees to fight back. Another case just popped up this week.

When Californians discovered true loopholes in the assault weapons ban (things they were specifically trying to block that they did not), the California law enforcers basically said, "You think that's legal? Just try it and see what happens." For a long time, there was something of a cold war between gun owners, ffls, and the California DOJ. The DOJ would intimidate, and send out nastygrams, officials would show up at gun shows, and take down names of people and make claims that everyone would be arrested, and some FFLs would ignore them and stand up and sell off-list lowers. Slowly, but surely, more and more gun owners realized it was safe (or as safe as can be expected) to buy ARs and AKs as long as they were built up in one of the legal configurations.

Eventually this came to a head when local PD started running into these legal rifles that looked very illegal, and a few cases bubbled to the top. With money and legal support, from organized and unified gun owners, a lot of these cases were won, and began to set precedent for how LEOs respond to off-list rifles. Before, a DA wouldn't have to worry about the real legalities, and could just threaten prison, and get a plea deal from Joe Gunowner. That is no longer the case, especially since the DOJ recently burned a DA by telling him he could win a case that he wound up losing. My local gun show used to have one vendor selling lowers, and a lot of nervous people standing 6 feet from them mumbling nervously about assault weapons and prison. Now, ARs are everywhere, and gunnies can't whip out their wallets fast enough.

While this wasn't civil disobedience in the traditional sense, it was still civil disobedience. We didn't "win" anything tangible, but we won the confidence to do what we already knew to be legal without fear of being railroaded or threatened into submission.

They can't just pick us off one at a time anymore.

With Heller, we are now able to build serious legal challenges to the other unconstitutional laws we have here in California. We're on the offence. We're pushing forward, and we're actually changing things.

But if our "Commie-hole" was truly to be used as an example, following our organization, legal challenges, and unified support, gun rights across the nation would be much futher along than they are now.

We may be "sitting in shit", to use your colorful terms, but our shit gets flung far and wide. If you want to see the future of gun control in the nation and your home state, look to California, we know the gun grabbers are. If you think "Commie-fornia" is just going to break off, and sink into the ocean, you're ignoring history. It's going to sit there, and keep pumping out stupid gun laws that set precedent for laws in other states, and laws for the feds. It only took a week after microstamping passed for Ted Kennedy to suggest a similar law on the federal level.

So you can either help us fight for our state, and the nation; or your can stand at the border, cross your arms, and shake your head.

Your choice.

But don't you think the defeat of the California's AWB on constitutional or Heller grounds would give federal legislators pause on their AWB? Hell, you probably don't. Just keep enjoying your shall issue CCW, regular AR-15s, lack of pistol limitations, lack of mandatory "safety" features, and available class 3 firearms. Feel free to keep thinking those things will never (hope and) change. We'll keep fighting with or without you.

Thanks for the explanations!

Because I do enjoy, "shall issue CCW, regular AR-15s, lack of pistol limitations, lack of mandatory "safety" features, and available class 3 firearms" I try to pay attention to California's silly laws.

I have a hot-rod too, I've been paying attention to CARB longer than I have owned guns. That CARB BS sure got exported to the whole nation, so it's not just guns that California influences.

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

It's not that it's not important to have curative on hand and know how to use it, but that in the long run it'll work out better for everyone to do the boring and hard-to-measure foundation-laying. People in general know so little about guns that RKBA folks are at a serious disadvantage. Small victories can be good because they're easier to swallow, and a lot of people have so much on their plates the deal with that they can only manage a little more.

Because nobody really wants to know how you use to do it in the once great state of California.

Heh-heh. My old joke about how do you tell a native Californian? He's the one leaving the state.

Trust me, it'll be like that story about the guy from the frigid north who strapped a snow-shovel on the front of his truck and headed south; didn't stop until he was asked what that thing was on the front of his truck. I won't move anywhere the horde has already infected.

Good to hear but it is not civil disobedence. It is following the letter of the law, that is what you are allowed to do. Civil disobedence is when you break the law and say come and get me.

It's gaming the system. There's value in it, not least because it requires the system to expend resources for little or no return.

There's value in all sorts of things.

existingthing spoke too soon; another Calgunner got arrested on felony charges this week. And once again, we're rallying to the cause to help him fight the charges, defeat the DA and win the case.

Story here: http://www.softgreenglow.com/wp/?p=6814

There's certainly value to what you guys are doing, but you have to remember that you're not changing any laws. What you're doing is fully legal - try buying one of the guns that actually are banned.

I hope it will work, but I don't think it will mean much. The regulators will just crack down that much more. Remember the socialist mantra, "Do it again - only harder!"