"Because I believe the PRIMARY purpose of the State is the defense of my rights."
Except that the primary purpose of rights is to protect the individual from the state itself, that's why things such as the Bill of Rights have to be set up to be difficult for the state to alter.
I think the states primary purpose is the collective security of the citizens; individual security being the responsibility of the individual himself/herself.
Just my opinion.
Except that the primary purpose of rights is to protect the individual from the state itself, that's why things such as the Bill of Rights have to be set up to be difficult for the state to alter.
(*sigh*)
No.
Read all seven posts on the left sidebar under "The 'Rights' Discussion".
America is the first government in history set up with the expressed intent of protecting the rights of its citizens.
Rights don't protect you from the State. The Constitution is supposed to protect your rights from the State.
"America is the first government in history set up with the expressed intent of protecting the rights of its citizens."
Correct; but from what is it protecting their rights? From itself. The Bill of Rights is not protecting citizens from other states or natural occurrences, it is protecting them from the actions of the state itself, by setting boundaries on the government. The biggest danger to anyone's rights is the state itself.
Perhaps it might be better to say that the purpose of the State (in the United States) is to serve limited objectives without interfering with the citizens' rights.
The rights have no "purpose", they just ARE. They insure that we keep the abilities which allow us to contreol government, and at the same time to live a free life.
May I suggest that a better definition of government purpose (in the present example, at least) might be:
to provide you security from excesses of infringement upon your rights
Since it is a staple that individual rights are not unlimited in scope (See: the old example of maliciously yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, for instance), the above would seem to address the concerns so far mentioned, I think.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ..."
From the Declaration of Independence, paragraph two.
"In a primitive state, there is no doubt that each man would be justified in using force, if necessary, to defend himself against physical harm, against theft of the fruits of his labor, and against enslavement of another.
"Indeed, the early pioneers found that a great deal of their time and energy was being spent doing all three – defending themselves, their property and their liberty – in what properly was called the “Lawless West.” In order for man to prosper, he cannot afford to spend his time constantly guarding his family, his fields, and his property against attack and theft, so he joins together with his neighbors and hires a sheriff. At this precise moment, government is born. The individual citizens delegate to the sheriff their unquestionable right to protect themselves. The sheriff now does for them only what they had a right to do for themselves – nothing more."
Except the government is not responsible to the individual - it's only responsible to the society as a whole. Individuals are on their own recognizance. Read the piece.
I reiterate: The primary purpose of the government is to ensure that neither the government nor others infringe on my rights.
Put otherwise, the primary purpose of government is to follow its own damned rules.
Note:
All avatars and any images or other media embedded in comments were hosted on the JS-Kit website and have been lost;
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JS-Kit/Echo comments for article at http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2008/05/quote-of-day_11.html (10 comments)
Tentative mapping of comments to original article, corrections solicited.
I disagree that "providing you the security to keep it" is the primary purpose of a state
Why do you disagree?
Isn't it pretty much the universal assumption of social contract theorists that the fundamental purpose of the state is mutual defense?
Because I believe the PRIMARY purpose of the State is the defense of my rights.
"Because I believe the PRIMARY purpose of the State is the defense of my rights."
Except that the primary purpose of rights is to protect the individual from the state itself, that's why things such as the Bill of Rights have to be set up to be difficult for the state to alter.
I think the states primary purpose is the collective security of the citizens; individual security being the responsibility of the individual himself/herself.
Just my opinion.
Except that the primary purpose of rights is to protect the individual from the state itself, that's why things such as the Bill of Rights have to be set up to be difficult for the state to alter.
(*sigh*)
No.
Read all seven posts on the left sidebar under "The 'Rights' Discussion".
America is the first government in history set up with the expressed intent of protecting the rights of its citizens.
Rights don't protect you from the State. The Constitution is supposed to protect your rights from the State.
That's its primary job.
I think we differ on definitions.
"America is the first government in history set up with the expressed intent of protecting the rights of its citizens."
Correct; but from what is it protecting their rights? From itself. The Bill of Rights is not protecting citizens from other states or natural occurrences, it is protecting them from the actions of the state itself, by setting boundaries on the government. The biggest danger to anyone's rights is the state itself.
Perhaps it might be better to say that the purpose of the State (in the United States) is to serve limited objectives without interfering with the citizens' rights.
The rights have no "purpose", they just ARE. They insure that we keep the abilities which allow us to contreol government, and at the same time to live a free life.
City Journal is fantastic.
May I suggest that a better definition of government purpose (in the present example, at least) might be:
to provide you security from excesses of infringement upon your rights
Since it is a staple that individual rights are not unlimited in scope (See: the old example of maliciously yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, for instance), the above would seem to address the concerns so far mentioned, I think.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ..."
From the Declaration of Independence, paragraph two.
Yes, but recall the rights in question are Life, Liberty, and Property. In other words, the point of a state is to protect people from brigandage.
Everything after that is just details.
In other words, the point of a state is to protect people from brigandage.
A credible argument. Most "states" form for precisely that reason.
From "Is the Gov't Responsible for Your Protection, Pt. II":
"In a primitive state, there is no doubt that each man would be justified in using force, if necessary, to defend himself against physical harm, against theft of the fruits of his labor, and against enslavement of another.
"Indeed, the early pioneers found that a great deal of their time and energy was being spent doing all three – defending themselves, their property and their liberty – in what properly was called the “Lawless West.” In order for man to prosper, he cannot afford to spend his time constantly guarding his family, his fields, and his property against attack and theft, so he joins together with his neighbors and hires a sheriff. At this precise moment, government is born. The individual citizens delegate to the sheriff their unquestionable right to protect themselves. The sheriff now does for them only what they had a right to do for themselves – nothing more."
Except the government is not responsible to the individual - it's only responsible to the society as a whole. Individuals are on their own recognizance. Read the piece.
I reiterate: The primary purpose of the government is to ensure that neither the government nor others infringe on my rights.
Put otherwise, the primary purpose of government is to follow its own damned rules.
Note: All avatars and any images or other media embedded in comments were hosted on the JS-Kit website and have been lost; references to haloscan comments have been partially automatically remapped, but accuracy is not guaranteed and corrections are solicited.
If you notice any problems with this page or wish to have your home page link updated, please contact John Hardin <jhardin@impsec.org>