A primer in the proper relationship between intellect and emotion, according to Jewish mysticism.
You can imagine the human mind as being made of two components: the rational mind, and the emotional mind.
The rational mind can reason, but cannot impel action. In this model, it takes emotion to do that. A person totally devoid of emotion would starve to death.
If you decide on a course of action with the rational mind, and then lend motive force to your decisions with the emotional mind, then you are doing things the right way. For example, considering the phenomenon of slavery with the rational mind, you conclude that it is a gross offense against humanity. Then, your emotional mind conveys the full force of what that means, driving you with anger and righteous fury to do something about it.
If you decide on a course of action with your emotional mind, and then let your rational mind justify a decision already made (i.e. engage in "rationalization"), you are doing things the wrong way. For example, you want to have sex with a drunk girl. Therefore, you direct your rational mind to justify the decision to have sex ("she knew what could happen, she clearly wants it, she won't remember anyway," etc.), so that your conscience does not interfere with the pleasure of the act. Or less so, anyway.
Merely displaying emotion does not equate "giving in to your feelings," sometimes much the contrary. "Giving in to your feelings" is when you allow your emotions to determine your views, instead of providing motive force to them.
Hey Mark? When you're denied healthcare under Obamacare because your life isn't worth saving anymore, come talk to me about feelings.
When you can't get a doctor because all the local sawbones have either quit or retired due to onerous medical legislation, you come talk to me about feelings.
Oh, and before you ask, the doctor that my mother works with has already retired. And he did so because of what he saw coming down the pike from D.C. My mother is getting ready to retire for the same reason. Get ready for a doctor shortage, teacher boy. You know, the folks who actually WORK for a living instead of polluting and indoctrinating young helpless children with a sick mental illness known as liberalism.
The only good point to this horrible mess is that the people like you, the stupid, ignorant deluded idiots, the worthless, brainless drones who have forced this onto the country will suffer just as much as those of us who have fought against this travesty. I do hope you enjoy your government provided death, Marky boy. It will be the only thing you deserve about this whole mess.
"When the effects of Obamacare become reality, its architects will be hunted down like rabid dogs."
I hope it doesn't take that long, but I'll settle for then.
All my adult life, they told us how medicare and social security would go broke. I figured I'd never see a penny of it; they'd come up with means testing or something like that. I never thought the answer was going to be "let all the old folks die". Silly me. I can be so naive at times.
This may seem petty, but I should point out that, for an educator, Markadelphia's brilliant little aphorism managed to squeeze two typographical errors into a mere thirteen words.
So, when people express fear of the ultimate outcome of a course of action based on an assessment of what has actually happened elsewhere when such a course of action has been embarked upon, that's giving into your feelings.
On the other hand (where I also have five fingers), when you plan to screw roughly 90% of the population for the benefit of the other 10% (half of whom will end up no better off than they currently are), you're acting rationally and logically.
Rather than trade the usual back and forth on health care, consider this.
I think we can all agree that the health care industry makes money, right? Some people become doctors, nurses, sell insurance, work for HMOs etc to have a good career. Their motivation is perhaps more towards the extrinsic side. However, there are many people that enter the health care field because they want to help people. Their motivation is intrinsic. They do this for the sake of doing it...for the love they have of it and a salary is just an added perk. This would be why I teach, btw.
So the question becomes, why does the government want to get into health care? Several answers suggest themselves. With Medicare, Medicaid, S-Chip and state run health care, they already are fairly involved. But what is their motivation for this current push for historic legislation?
I'll wait for some answers and see where the discussion leads.
All right, I'll bite. I don't know why I bother, but I will.
Markadelphia, for the majority of the Congress, this is just Escalation of Failure - the philosophy cannot be wrong. Failure of Medicare, Medicaid, previous insurance "reforms," etc., must have been the result of improperly executing the job of .gov, so it only makes sense (to them) to turn up the power.
To many, however, it's an expansion of power. Government both corrupts and attracts the corrupt. How many members of Congress (either house) are you aware of who left public office without having become significantly wealthier than when they entered? You keep pointing out that "money is power." I'd reverse that - power begets money, and there is no greater repository of power than in Washington DC's Capitol Hill.
There is a small but significant portion of humanity that believes that they should be in charge, and they migrate into politics. Hell, I believe that many of the public faces we see sitting in seats behind the nametag "Representative" or even "Senator" are the pawns of the people who really want to wield the power.
Expansion of "health care" legislation - 2000+ pages of it - is a massive expansion in government power, and will lead to even more.
It's not about insuring 47 million or however many people in America don't have health insurance, it's about grabbing power in the name of doing good. It's human nature.
So the question becomes, why does the government want to get into health care? Several answers suggest themselves. With Medicare, Medicaid, S-Chip and state run health care, they already are fairly involved. But what is their motivation for this current push for historic legislation?
______________________
To control people's lives. For their own good, of course. They have the best of intentions, but the issue is not their intentions, it is their results that matter.
It would be one thing if this was the first ever socialized healthcare system. Then you might have a point. But it's not, and you don't. Every single place this has been done we've seen declines in quality, rationing, and completely unsustainable levels of government spending. This isn't a game, this isn't rationing like only half a pound of meat per person. Rationing means fewer drugs and less time with doctors. A decline in quality means missed tumors and botched surgeries. People will die who would not have because of this bill.
You know those mercenary dicks in it for the money? They're the best, they always are. They push the envelope, they do the tough surgeries. The touchy feely ones who are there for the caring are not as good, and there aren't as many of them, not by a long shot.
On a wider level, it is the US that invents new medical technologies and new drugs. What will happen as those industries become socialized? They will die, and the whole world will be stuck with the medical care we have right now. No more advancement, no more progress. No AIDS vaccine, no cure for cancer. Growing organs, genetic medicine, deeper research into the mysteries of the brain, none of that will come to pass.
People act in their own self-interest. They do things for money, or for fame or glory. They trade their labor for things that are useful to them. Do you know how many people find a stack of forms to be filled out in triplicate to be useful to them?
The people behind the IRS, the ATF, the DMV, and the post office are about to get lab coats and stethoscopes. Once again the Left will make things worse and then absolve themselves of responsibility, just like they did in the 60s. Oh how could we know that legalizing abortion would lead to more of it, how could we know sex education would lead to more teen pregnancy, how could we know that loosening punishment would lead to an explosion of violent crime, how could we know that environmental legislation would kill industry, etc.
You know what? I'm sick of it. When your kid uses the pasta for dinner to make a macaroni picture for you, you smile and order takeout. When you look at the wreckage of American liberalism, at the empty factories, the abortion clinics, the riots and the raped, the people on the dole who demand more and more, and then you turn and those nice little well intentioned softies have another brand new idea that's never been tried before and is entirely different from the last one...I can't smile anymore. I want to rub your nose in it. There has to be some way you can see what you've done, some way to show you what evil you have unleashed on the world with all your good intentions.
The fact that five years from now you'll be taking a number behind me at State Clinic #298 does not make me feel better. Because "I told you so" will not cut it when a loved one is on the waiting list while they waste away from illness. It doesn't comfort those who are told that they are not cost effective to treat.
"People act in their own self-interest. They do things for money, or for fame or glory. They trade their labor for things that are useful to them. Do you know how many people find a stack of forms to be filled out in triplicate to be useful to them?"
Britt, that's dead on.
Teacher boy, I suggest you frame this, hang it on your wall, and read it, every goddamned day.
"The fact that five years from now you'll be taking a number behind me at State Clinic #298 does not make me feel better. Because "I told you so" will not cut it when a loved one is on the waiting list while they waste away from illness. It doesn't comfort those who are told that they are not cost effective to treat."
I fear that'll be me. What I see in these two bill scares the bejabbers out of me.
I'd love to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe this; but first I'd have to convince myself that you didn't go into a field where you could never be fired due to incompetence, and only for the grossest misbehavior.
I'd love to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe this; but first I'd have to convince myself that you didn't go into a field where you could never be fired due to incompetence, and only for the grossest misbehavior.
juris_imprudent | Email | Homepage | 11.23.09 - 9:15 pm | #
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I'm going to be a teacher. Because someone has to counter indoctrination. The Left marched through the institutions 20 years ago. Time for a counterattack.
Of course, "grossest misbehavior" to a teacher's union is pretty much molestation or being a conservative. I also have serious ethical qualms about teaching a in a public school, but that's where the battle is. Private school kids are much smarter.
I know a teacher at a local high school, he's a Republican. He was in the hall the other day, walking to his class, when a colleague said "That bitch (two guesses who she meant) you love so much was on TV last night. God I'd like to kill her". She said this in front of kids!
The rot is deep, the hate is breathtaking. It's a huge problem dealing with people who think that you are not misguided, but evil. You cannot argue with someone, you cannot compromise with a group which believes that you are motivated by racism and bigotry. They seek to destroy you, not to work with you. When they call people "Nazi!" they mean it. They do see their political adversaries as villains to be opposed by all means. You don't need to listen to Nazis, you don't need to compromise with them. You certainly don't need to refute their arguments. They're Nazis, and Obama is Captain America, and every Markadelphia in the world imagines himself as Bucky.
"Failure of Medicare, Medicaid, previous insurance "reforms," etc., must have been the result of improperly executing the job of .gov, so it only makes sense (to them) to turn up the power."
Medicare has failed? That's news to me. Actually, it's news to the 20+ relatives who I am about to enjoy a Thanksgiving meal with today. Just out of curiosity, is anyone who posts here on Medicare? Or going to be on it? I'll be the first to admit that it's not perfect but I think it certainly is not a failure.
"To many, however, it's an expansion of power."
Why is this power "bad" though in the name of doing "good?" Kevin, you have no problem with our government running the military, correct? To me, if you are worried about power, aren't the people with the tanks the ones that should cause the most concern? And isn't the health of this nation something that should be defended? What if there is a biological attack? Isn't that a mix of health care and defense?
And I still can't see what other mechanism should fix health care. Unless you think that everything is fine with the system we have in which case I'd like to hear how we are all are going to pay our premioums in 10 years when the rates have gone up and our standard of living hasn't.
"I believe that many of the public faces we see sitting in seats behind the nametag "Representative" or even "Senator" are the pawns of the people who really want to wield the power."
I agree completely. The current versions of both bills are one giant blow job to the insurance industry. They are about to get millions of new customers. In fact, the CBO estimates that fewer than 6 million people will be on the government plan...a far cry from Ragin' Dave's armageddon scenario. They estimate that .gov plan will actually cost more than private insurance and that is why less people will be on it.
"it's about grabbing power in the name of doing good. It's human nature."
I am reminded of what Mastiff wrote above. And this is true of many of you....not just Kevin.
"If you decide on a course of action with your emotional mind, and then let your rational mind justify a decision already made (i.e. engage in "rationalization"), you are doing things the wrong way."
Your emotional mind has decided any time the goverment does anything it is about power. It is about controlling your life. Some may call this paranoid. I simply call it a belief. Take, for example, this line...
"The fact that five years from now you'll be taking a number behind me at State Clinic #298 does not make me feel better."
It is completely grounded in what Mastiff calls the emotional mind...it is grounded in fear. He states as "fact" something that hasn't happened yet. How do you KNOW this, Britt?
The facts of the bill as it currently stands do not bear this out. In fact, they directly contradict it. Insurance companies will have more money then ever, HMOs will see their bottom line rise, and health care will be a good field to get into because of a slew of new customers. Drug companies are probably exhausted from the 900 orgasms they have had in the last few weeks at the the thought of all the new customers.
The reason why I asked what I did above was to illustrate the extreme sensitivity you have to government run anything. It's simply not rational. I'm not saying it isn't logical to have some concerns but the leap you take....saying we are all going to become like the Soviet Union in the 1950s...is not rational.
The irony in all of this is that much of what you describe in your doosmday scenarios IS ARLEADY HAPPENING. None of you see this because either you haven't experienced it or you don't know someone who has. Take a look at this story.
That story is written by Keith Olbermann's producer, a writer for the same network that used a black man at a tea party with an AR-15 as an indictment of "armed white males" while carefully not showing any of his skin.
Note that he quotes all kinds of percentages, but provides no backup for any of them. I didn't find a single link anywhere in the piece, nor find a single source cited for any of his data.
So tell me Mark, why should I assume that a single word of that is the truth? Even the small words like "a" and "the"?
"They are about to get millions of new customers."
They are about to get 111 new feddle overlords.
"Your emotional mind has decided any time the goverment does anything it is about power. It is about controlling your life. Some may call this paranoid. I simply call it a belief."
Your emotional mind has decided any time private industry does anything it is about power. It is about controlling your life. Some may call this paranoid. You simply call it a belief.
(T)he latest Financial Report of the U.S. Government assume that Medicare payments to doctors will be slashed drastically, by some 41% over the next nine years, as required by current law. It won't happen. Every year for the past five years, Congress has overridden the mandatory cuts. As for future cuts, the Financial Report says drily, "Reductions of this magnitude are not feasible and are very unlikely to occur fully in practice." So in reality, Medicare will go into the hole even faster than official projections reflect. And they show that if Medicare had to be accounted for like a company pension fund, it would be underfunded by $34 trillion.
Yes, Medicare has failed. It is completely unsustainable. But hey, look at the bright side! Some of the people you had Thanksgiving dinner with might die before the facade collapses completely! They'll at least get theirs!
"why should I assume that a single word of that is the truth?"
The only way you will ever see the truth is if you go to a free clinic like the one he went to or one put on by RAM. In fact, I don't think you should believe a word he says. Go see for yourself.
"Your emotional mind has decided any time private industry does anything it is about power. It is about controlling your life. Some may call this paranoid. You simply call it a belief."
That's not true. I have mentioned several corporations on here that are great companies. Overall, the problem with private industry is systemic and I admit I do tend to generalize when it comes to America Inc. Remember, though, Friedman himself has said that a good corporation must be amoral.
"Certainly there are financial issues with Medicare but it is NOT as dire as you say."
It's in the red, it's getting worse, and its balance sheet shows 34 trillion dollars of unfunded liability, but you think is "not as dire" as Kevin says.
You just cannot admit to reality, can you?
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Honestly, this still has a ways to go. Although I'm not hopeful, it isn't over yet.
As long as your not giving into to your feelings, geek and Kevin.
"As long as your not giving into to your feelings, geek and Kevin."
Which means precisely what, in plain English, teacher boy?
Goddamn, but you can slather on the blather.
When the effects of Obamacare become reality, its architects will be hunted down like rabid dogs.
That's why it's slated to take effect after the 2012 elections.
Mark,
A primer in the proper relationship between intellect and emotion, according to Jewish mysticism.
You can imagine the human mind as being made of two components: the rational mind, and the emotional mind.
The rational mind can reason, but cannot impel action. In this model, it takes emotion to do that. A person totally devoid of emotion would starve to death.
If you decide on a course of action with the rational mind, and then lend motive force to your decisions with the emotional mind, then you are doing things the right way. For example, considering the phenomenon of slavery with the rational mind, you conclude that it is a gross offense against humanity. Then, your emotional mind conveys the full force of what that means, driving you with anger and righteous fury to do something about it.
If you decide on a course of action with your emotional mind, and then let your rational mind justify a decision already made (i.e. engage in "rationalization"), you are doing things the wrong way. For example, you want to have sex with a drunk girl. Therefore, you direct your rational mind to justify the decision to have sex ("she knew what could happen, she clearly wants it, she won't remember anyway," etc.), so that your conscience does not interfere with the pleasure of the act. Or less so, anyway.
Merely displaying emotion does not equate "giving in to your feelings," sometimes much the contrary. "Giving in to your feelings" is when you allow your emotions to determine your views, instead of providing motive force to them.
Hey Mark? When you're denied healthcare under Obamacare because your life isn't worth saving anymore, come talk to me about feelings.
When you can't get a doctor because all the local sawbones have either quit or retired due to onerous medical legislation, you come talk to me about feelings.
Oh, and before you ask, the doctor that my mother works with has already retired. And he did so because of what he saw coming down the pike from D.C. My mother is getting ready to retire for the same reason. Get ready for a doctor shortage, teacher boy. You know, the folks who actually WORK for a living instead of polluting and indoctrinating young helpless children with a sick mental illness known as liberalism.
The only good point to this horrible mess is that the people like you, the stupid, ignorant deluded idiots, the worthless, brainless drones who have forced this onto the country will suffer just as much as those of us who have fought against this travesty. I do hope you enjoy your government provided death, Marky boy. It will be the only thing you deserve about this whole mess.
"When the effects of Obamacare become reality, its architects will be hunted down like rabid dogs."
I hope it doesn't take that long, but I'll settle for then.
All my adult life, they told us how medicare and social security would go broke. I figured I'd never see a penny of it; they'd come up with means testing or something like that. I never thought the answer was going to be "let all the old folks die". Silly me. I can be so naive at times.
This may seem petty, but I should point out that, for an educator, Markadelphia's brilliant little aphorism managed to squeeze two typographical errors into a mere thirteen words.
I should also point out that I myself just committed a verb/subject confusion error.
But at least I can tell "You're" from "Your."
So, when people express fear of the ultimate outcome of a course of action based on an assessment of what has actually happened elsewhere when such a course of action has been embarked upon, that's giving into your feelings.
On the other hand (where I also have five fingers), when you plan to screw roughly 90% of the population for the benefit of the other 10% (half of whom will end up no better off than they currently are), you're acting rationally and logically.
Thanks, I understand now.
Markadelphia, understand that I say this dispassionately:
Fuck.
Off.
Mastiff, good points. I enjoyed your post.
Rather than trade the usual back and forth on health care, consider this.
I think we can all agree that the health care industry makes money, right? Some people become doctors, nurses, sell insurance, work for HMOs etc to have a good career. Their motivation is perhaps more towards the extrinsic side. However, there are many people that enter the health care field because they want to help people. Their motivation is intrinsic. They do this for the sake of doing it...for the love they have of it and a salary is just an added perk. This would be why I teach, btw.
So the question becomes, why does the government want to get into health care? Several answers suggest themselves. With Medicare, Medicaid, S-Chip and state run health care, they already are fairly involved. But what is their motivation for this current push for historic legislation?
I'll wait for some answers and see where the discussion leads.
All right, I'll bite. I don't know why I bother, but I will.
Markadelphia, for the majority of the Congress, this is just Escalation of Failure - the philosophy cannot be wrong. Failure of Medicare, Medicaid, previous insurance "reforms," etc., must have been the result of improperly executing the job of .gov, so it only makes sense (to them) to turn up the power.
To many, however, it's an expansion of power. Government both corrupts and attracts the corrupt. How many members of Congress (either house) are you aware of who left public office without having become significantly wealthier than when they entered? You keep pointing out that "money is power." I'd reverse that - power begets money, and there is no greater repository of power than in Washington DC's Capitol Hill.
There is a small but significant portion of humanity that believes that they should be in charge, and they migrate into politics. Hell, I believe that many of the public faces we see sitting in seats behind the nametag "Representative" or even "Senator" are the pawns of the people who really want to wield the power.
Expansion of "health care" legislation - 2000+ pages of it - is a massive expansion in government power, and will lead to even more.
It's not about insuring 47 million or however many people in America don't have health insurance, it's about grabbing power in the name of doing good. It's human nature.
So the question becomes, why does the government want to get into health care? Several answers suggest themselves. With Medicare, Medicaid, S-Chip and state run health care, they already are fairly involved. But what is their motivation for this current push for historic legislation?
______________________
To control people's lives. For their own good, of course. They have the best of intentions, but the issue is not their intentions, it is their results that matter.
It would be one thing if this was the first ever socialized healthcare system. Then you might have a point. But it's not, and you don't. Every single place this has been done we've seen declines in quality, rationing, and completely unsustainable levels of government spending. This isn't a game, this isn't rationing like only half a pound of meat per person. Rationing means fewer drugs and less time with doctors. A decline in quality means missed tumors and botched surgeries. People will die who would not have because of this bill.
You know those mercenary dicks in it for the money? They're the best, they always are. They push the envelope, they do the tough surgeries. The touchy feely ones who are there for the caring are not as good, and there aren't as many of them, not by a long shot.
On a wider level, it is the US that invents new medical technologies and new drugs. What will happen as those industries become socialized? They will die, and the whole world will be stuck with the medical care we have right now. No more advancement, no more progress. No AIDS vaccine, no cure for cancer. Growing organs, genetic medicine, deeper research into the mysteries of the brain, none of that will come to pass.
People act in their own self-interest. They do things for money, or for fame or glory. They trade their labor for things that are useful to them. Do you know how many people find a stack of forms to be filled out in triplicate to be useful to them?
The people behind the IRS, the ATF, the DMV, and the post office are about to get lab coats and stethoscopes. Once again the Left will make things worse and then absolve themselves of responsibility, just like they did in the 60s. Oh how could we know that legalizing abortion would lead to more of it, how could we know sex education would lead to more teen pregnancy, how could we know that loosening punishment would lead to an explosion of violent crime, how could we know that environmental legislation would kill industry, etc.
You know what? I'm sick of it. When your kid uses the pasta for dinner to make a macaroni picture for you, you smile and order takeout. When you look at the wreckage of American liberalism, at the empty factories, the abortion clinics, the riots and the raped, the people on the dole who demand more and more, and then you turn and those nice little well intentioned softies have another brand new idea that's never been tried before and is entirely different from the last one...I can't smile anymore. I want to rub your nose in it. There has to be some way you can see what you've done, some way to show you what evil you have unleashed on the world with all your good intentions.
The fact that five years from now you'll be taking a number behind me at State Clinic #298 does not make me feel better. Because "I told you so" will not cut it when a loved one is on the waiting list while they waste away from illness. It doesn't comfort those who are told that they are not cost effective to treat.
http://jim.com/hayek.htm
F.A. Hayek: "Why the Worst Get on Top" (scroll about halfway down)
I'd give it 15-20 years, Britt, but you're largely right, IMHO.
"... why does the government want to get into health care?"
What is the government, teacher boy? Hah?
It is some people who, temporarily, hold positions of influence in gubmint who want the gubmint to get into health care.
"I'll wait for some answers and see where the discussion leads."
Well, now that you ought to have a better understanding of who wants health care, why don't you try asking a better question?
"People act in their own self-interest. They do things for money, or for fame or glory. They trade their labor for things that are useful to them. Do you know how many people find a stack of forms to be filled out in triplicate to be useful to them?"
Britt, that's dead on.
Teacher boy, I suggest you frame this, hang it on your wall, and read it, every goddamned day.
"The fact that five years from now you'll be taking a number behind me at State Clinic #298 does not make me feel better. Because "I told you so" will not cut it when a loved one is on the waiting list while they waste away from illness. It doesn't comfort those who are told that they are not cost effective to treat."
I fear that'll be me. What I see in these two bill scares the bejabbers out of me.
"I'll wait for some answers and see where the discussion leads."
Doesn't matter, you won't be able to follow.
This would be why I teach, btw.
I'd love to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe this; but first I'd have to convince myself that you didn't go into a field where you could never be fired due to incompetence, and only for the grossest misbehavior.
I'd love to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe this; but first I'd have to convince myself that you didn't go into a field where you could never be fired due to incompetence, and only for the grossest misbehavior.
juris_imprudent | Email | Homepage | 11.23.09 - 9:15 pm | #
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I'm going to be a teacher. Because someone has to counter indoctrination. The Left marched through the institutions 20 years ago. Time for a counterattack.
Of course, "grossest misbehavior" to a teacher's union is pretty much molestation or being a conservative. I also have serious ethical qualms about teaching a in a public school, but that's where the battle is. Private school kids are much smarter.
I know a teacher at a local high school, he's a Republican. He was in the hall the other day, walking to his class, when a colleague said "That bitch (two guesses who she meant) you love so much was on TV last night. God I'd like to kill her". She said this in front of kids!
The rot is deep, the hate is breathtaking. It's a huge problem dealing with people who think that you are not misguided, but evil. You cannot argue with someone, you cannot compromise with a group which believes that you are motivated by racism and bigotry. They seek to destroy you, not to work with you. When they call people "Nazi!" they mean it. They do see their political adversaries as villains to be opposed by all means. You don't need to listen to Nazis, you don't need to compromise with them. You certainly don't need to refute their arguments. They're Nazis, and Obama is Captain America, and every Markadelphia in the world imagines himself as Bucky.
I came into this discussion late, but still have a point to make.
Markadelphia:
It's the LEFTISTS who make a habit of "giving in to their FEELINGS."
I'm not saying that no one need be alarmed at the ever-increasing volume at which we on the Right/Conservative/liberty-loving side express our anger.
It is most definitely a warning sign.
What you should be MOST concerned about, though, is when the angry voices fall SILENT.
....because we do not ACT upon our FEELINGS, like wild animals and liberals.
We THINK. And, THEN, we act.
It's when the dogs you've been whipping STOP barking that you should start worrying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jadstGm-foY
EVIL PROFITS!!!! ReasonTV knocks out yet another great video.
Kill IT?
IT??
I want congresscritters that draw breath to stop respiration permanently if this goes into effect.
IT?
Them.....
What is the government, teacher boy? Hah?
GOF pretty thoroughly stumped boy-blunder on that point here. Another one of "those threads" left hanging.
"Failure of Medicare, Medicaid, previous insurance "reforms," etc., must have been the result of improperly executing the job of .gov, so it only makes sense (to them) to turn up the power."
Medicare has failed? That's news to me. Actually, it's news to the 20+ relatives who I am about to enjoy a Thanksgiving meal with today. Just out of curiosity, is anyone who posts here on Medicare? Or going to be on it? I'll be the first to admit that it's not perfect but I think it certainly is not a failure.
"To many, however, it's an expansion of power."
Why is this power "bad" though in the name of doing "good?" Kevin, you have no problem with our government running the military, correct? To me, if you are worried about power, aren't the people with the tanks the ones that should cause the most concern? And isn't the health of this nation something that should be defended? What if there is a biological attack? Isn't that a mix of health care and defense?
And I still can't see what other mechanism should fix health care. Unless you think that everything is fine with the system we have in which case I'd like to hear how we are all are going to pay our premioums in 10 years when the rates have gone up and our standard of living hasn't.
"I believe that many of the public faces we see sitting in seats behind the nametag "Representative" or even "Senator" are the pawns of the people who really want to wield the power."
I agree completely. The current versions of both bills are one giant blow job to the insurance industry. They are about to get millions of new customers. In fact, the CBO estimates that fewer than 6 million people will be on the government plan...a far cry from Ragin' Dave's armageddon scenario. They estimate that .gov plan will actually cost more than private insurance and that is why less people will be on it.
"it's about grabbing power in the name of doing good. It's human nature."
I am reminded of what Mastiff wrote above. And this is true of many of you....not just Kevin.
"If you decide on a course of action with your emotional mind, and then let your rational mind justify a decision already made (i.e. engage in "rationalization"), you are doing things the wrong way."
Your emotional mind has decided any time the goverment does anything it is about power. It is about controlling your life. Some may call this paranoid. I simply call it a belief. Take, for example, this line...
"The fact that five years from now you'll be taking a number behind me at State Clinic #298 does not make me feel better."
It is completely grounded in what Mastiff calls the emotional mind...it is grounded in fear. He states as "fact" something that hasn't happened yet. How do you KNOW this, Britt?
The facts of the bill as it currently stands do not bear this out. In fact, they directly contradict it. Insurance companies will have more money then ever, HMOs will see their bottom line rise, and health care will be a good field to get into because of a slew of new customers. Drug companies are probably exhausted from the 900 orgasms they have had in the last few weeks at the the thought of all the new customers.
The reason why I asked what I did above was to illustrate the extreme sensitivity you have to government run anything. It's simply not rational. I'm not saying it isn't logical to have some concerns but the leap you take....saying we are all going to become like the Soviet Union in the 1950s...is not rational.
The irony in all of this is that much of what you describe in your doosmday scenarios IS ARLEADY HAPPENING. None of you see this because either you haven't experienced it or you don't know someone who has. Take a look at this story.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33975919/
It's already happening....
That story is written by Keith Olbermann's producer, a writer for the same network that used a black man at a tea party with an AR-15 as an indictment of "armed white males" while carefully not showing any of his skin.
Note that he quotes all kinds of percentages, but provides no backup for any of them. I didn't find a single link anywhere in the piece, nor find a single source cited for any of his data.
So tell me Mark, why should I assume that a single word of that is the truth? Even the small words like "a" and "the"?
"They are about to get millions of new customers."
They are about to get 111 new feddle overlords.
"Your emotional mind has decided any time the goverment does anything it is about power. It is about controlling your life. Some may call this paranoid. I simply call it a belief."
Your emotional mind has decided any time private industry does anything it is about power. It is about controlling your life. Some may call this paranoid. You simply call it a belief.
Still can't control your hypocrisy, can you?
Medicare has failed? That's news to me. Actually, it's news to the 20+ relatives who I am about to enjoy a Thanksgiving meal with today.
And I'm not surprised to hear that.
Medicare is $34 trillion in the hole, Markadelphia.
(T)he latest Financial Report of the U.S. Government assume that Medicare payments to doctors will be slashed drastically, by some 41% over the next nine years, as required by current law. It won't happen. Every year for the past five years, Congress has overridden the mandatory cuts. As for future cuts, the Financial Report says drily, "Reductions of this magnitude are not feasible and are very unlikely to occur fully in practice." So in reality, Medicare will go into the hole even faster than official projections reflect. And they show that if Medicare had to be accounted for like a company pension fund, it would be underfunded by $34 trillion.
Yes, Medicare has failed. It is completely unsustainable. But hey, look at the bright side! Some of the people you had Thanksgiving dinner with might die before the facade collapses completely! They'll at least get theirs!
You and I on the other hand . . .
"You and I on the other hand . . ."
I've stated this before and it sounds really odd, even to me, but I'm really pleased at this point that I'm not young.
"why should I assume that a single word of that is the truth?"
The only way you will ever see the truth is if you go to a free clinic like the one he went to or one put on by RAM. In fact, I don't think you should believe a word he says. Go see for yourself.
"Your emotional mind has decided any time private industry does anything it is about power. It is about controlling your life. Some may call this paranoid. You simply call it a belief."
That's not true. I have mentioned several corporations on here that are great companies. Overall, the problem with private industry is systemic and I admit I do tend to generalize when it comes to America Inc. Remember, though, Friedman himself has said that a good corporation must be amoral.
Kevin,
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/going-out-of-business/
Certainly there are financial issues with Medicare but it is NOT as dire as you say.
And AGW is real?
"Certainly there are financial issues with Medicare but it is NOT as dire as you say."
It's in the red, it's getting worse, and its balance sheet shows 34 trillion dollars of unfunded liability, but you think is "not as dire" as Kevin says.
You just cannot admit to reality, can you?
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