I'm wondering if the picture at your "it's apparently not" link was hacked. The text says not one thing about the bayonet, and obviously doesn't include it in the 205mm (8 inch) overall length. Or else they assigned the job of getting a picture illustrating "Integral double-rail for accessory attachment (modified MIL-STD-1913)" to a total idit.
Incidentally, what's that recurved edge from the point to the back of the blade? You'll see a recurved edge on many bowie/survival/combat knives, but I've never seen it on a bayonet. Furthermore, AFAIK knives of this type that were designed for use rather than show have the point centered and pointing straight forwards for the best stabbing, not off-center and hooked upwards like in this picture.
Huh. Never heard of one of those that wasn't a flinchlock.
(Sorry, the link is to a nonfunctional wall-hanger. I think Dixie used to carry working replicas.)
Tam had one at the shop. It is real. Apparently, CZ made them as a joke at the shot show. to their surprise, people really wanted them so they make them now.
On second thought... didn't the rogue simulant in the Red Dwarf episode "Justice" have something like this? Only, if memory serves, it had a straight-pointy bayonet (and maybe was a switchblade to boot).
Not Exactly a new idea. A previous commenter noted the flintlock version circa 1700's. Here's a patent for a revolver with a bayonet attached to the grip from 1917. Don't know if it was ever produced though.
[quote]Incidentally, what's that recurved edge from the point to the back of the blade? You'll see a recurved edge on many bowie/survival/combat knives, but I've never seen it on a bayonet. Furthermore, AFAIK knives of this type that were designed for use rather than show have the point centered and pointing straight forwards for the best stabbing, not off-center and hooked upwards like in this picture.[/quote]
The bayonet for the Lee-Enfield No5 MkI Rifle (aka Jungle Carbine) has a Bowie-style blade, as do early versions of the blade bayonet for the No4 MkI.
Trackback message
Title: Bayonet for Your CZ Pistol?
Excerpt: Thanks to Smallest Minority for pointing out the must-have accessory of the Christmas season, a pistol-sized bayonet:
I can sort of see the flintlock pistol with a bayonet. Pistols aren't very effective except at ranges too close to reload a muzzleloader. After taking that one shot in a melee, what would you rather be doing: dropping your weapon and trying to draw another one, using the pistol as a club, or using the short sword that was built into your fancy pistol? I do wonder, though, at what the sword would do to the weight and balance of the pistol.
But if you empty a semi-auto with any reasonable magazine and someone is still standing within knife range, you really, really needed more range time.
But if you empty a semi-auto with any reasonable magazine and someone is still standing within knife range, you really, really needed more range time.
I'm thinking that this was envisioned for tactical (read war-time) applications. That means there might be more targets than you have ammo for.
Course it still doesn't make much sense. If you are in a battle, you run all your weapons dry and the enemy is still coming, which would you rather have: a Rifle with a bayonet or a pistol with a bayonet? If all you have is a pistol and it runs dry, which would be more effective: a bayonet on the end of an unwieldy pistol, or a combat knife? Besides, what would a holster for that thing look like and how hard would it be to get it out and in service?
It seems to me that this configuration is nothing more than a marketing ploy that appeals to wanna-be warriors. Heck, it doesn't even look cool, it looks ridiculous.
Sailor: First of all, soldiers regard a pistol as what you might have to use in an emergency to get to your rifle. (Some might make an exception if the pistol in question is the Army .45, and the rifle is a plastic .223 caliber varmint gun.) If you've got ammo, the rifle shoots straighter and (in most cases) harder. If you're out of ammo, a rifle with a bayonet has the reach on that abortion, it's better for blocking blows, and both ends are useful in a close-in fight. Finally, if you really want to fight with a pistol and a knife, that's why you have two hands.
OK, I might see one use for this, if the bayonet is effective. In Vietnam, sometimes the best of our men had to crawl down a tunnel after the VC. They carried a .45, a knife, and a flashlight, which meant one item was carried in your teeth and there was some sudden juggling if you needed it. Combining some items could come in very handy, but that bayonet looks only 4" long. I think I'd use the flashlight mounted on the pistol and carry a real knife in the other hand.
The Webley Mk. VI revolver had a bayonet designed for it for use in trench raiding, but it wasn't very popular, apparently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webley_Revolver
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JS-Kit/Echo comments for article at http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2006/10/youve-got-to-be-kidding-me.html (16 comments)
Tentative mapping of comments to original article, corrections solicited.
I'm wondering if the picture at your "it's apparently not" link was hacked. The text says not one thing about the bayonet, and obviously doesn't include it in the 205mm (8 inch) overall length. Or else they assigned the job of getting a picture illustrating "Integral double-rail for accessory attachment (modified MIL-STD-1913)" to a total idit.
Incidentally, what's that recurved edge from the point to the back of the blade? You'll see a recurved edge on many bowie/survival/combat knives, but I've never seen it on a bayonet. Furthermore, AFAIK knives of this type that were designed for use rather than show have the point centered and pointing straight forwards for the best stabbing, not off-center and hooked upwards like in this picture.
Watch the video link on the page. Right at the very end of the video I think you'll get a glimpse of a bayonet-equipped pistol.
I think it's real.
Edited to add:
Upon further review, the video clip shows the bayonet-equipped pistol in full frame.
It's real.
STUPID, but real.
Huh. Never heard of one of those that wasn't a flinchlock.
(Sorry, the link is to a nonfunctional wall-hanger. I think Dixie used to carry working replicas.)
It reminds me of that left handed 12" handle, deep socket 5/8" metric, monkey wrench I have been looking for.
What for? Well I'm disgruntled and out of whack and cannot find gruntle or whack in the hardware store.
I figure I will have to align the torque myself.
Tam had one at the shop. It is real. Apparently, CZ made them as a joke at the shot show. to their surprise, people really wanted them so they make them now.
On second thought... didn't the rogue simulant in the Red Dwarf episode "Justice" have something like this? Only, if memory serves, it had a straight-pointy bayonet (and maybe was a switchblade to boot).
Not Exactly a new idea. A previous commenter noted the flintlock version circa 1700's. Here's a patent for a revolver with a bayonet attached to the grip from 1917. Don't know if it was ever produced though.
Coal Creek Armory in Knoxville has one in the display case. For real.
[quote]Incidentally, what's that recurved edge from the point to the back of the blade? You'll see a recurved edge on many bowie/survival/combat knives, but I've never seen it on a bayonet. Furthermore, AFAIK knives of this type that were designed for use rather than show have the point centered and pointing straight forwards for the best stabbing, not off-center and hooked upwards like in this picture.[/quote]
The bayonet for the Lee-Enfield No5 MkI Rifle (aka Jungle Carbine) has a Bowie-style blade, as do early versions of the blade bayonet for the No4 MkI.
I can see how a bayonet on a pistol could be useful to those who use the center axis relock stance:
http://www.pointshooting.com/carmag.htm
Better info on CAR:
http://www.sabretactical.com/CAR/car.html
Trackback message
Title: Bayonet for Your CZ Pistol?
Excerpt: Thanks to Smallest Minority for pointing out the must-have accessory of the Christmas season, a pistol-sized bayonet:
...
Blog name: Footpounds
I can sort of see the flintlock pistol with a bayonet. Pistols aren't very effective except at ranges too close to reload a muzzleloader. After taking that one shot in a melee, what would you rather be doing: dropping your weapon and trying to draw another one, using the pistol as a club, or using the short sword that was built into your fancy pistol? I do wonder, though, at what the sword would do to the weight and balance of the pistol.
But if you empty a semi-auto with any reasonable magazine and someone is still standing within knife range, you really, really needed more range time.
But if you empty a semi-auto with any reasonable magazine and someone is still standing within knife range, you really, really needed more range time.
I'm thinking that this was envisioned for tactical (read war-time) applications. That means there might be more targets than you have ammo for.
Course it still doesn't make much sense. If you are in a battle, you run all your weapons dry and the enemy is still coming, which would you rather have: a Rifle with a bayonet or a pistol with a bayonet? If all you have is a pistol and it runs dry, which would be more effective: a bayonet on the end of an unwieldy pistol, or a combat knife? Besides, what would a holster for that thing look like and how hard would it be to get it out and in service?
It seems to me that this configuration is nothing more than a marketing ploy that appeals to wanna-be warriors. Heck, it doesn't even look cool, it looks ridiculous.
Sailor: First of all, soldiers regard a pistol as what you might have to use in an emergency to get to your rifle. (Some might make an exception if the pistol in question is the Army .45, and the rifle is a plastic .223 caliber varmint gun.) If you've got ammo, the rifle shoots straighter and (in most cases) harder. If you're out of ammo, a rifle with a bayonet has the reach on that abortion, it's better for blocking blows, and both ends are useful in a close-in fight. Finally, if you really want to fight with a pistol and a knife, that's why you have two hands.
OK, I might see one use for this, if the bayonet is effective. In Vietnam, sometimes the best of our men had to crawl down a tunnel after the VC. They carried a .45, a knife, and a flashlight, which meant one item was carried in your teeth and there was some sudden juggling if you needed it. Combining some items could come in very handy, but that bayonet looks only 4" long. I think I'd use the flashlight mounted on the pistol and carry a real knife in the other hand.
The Webley Mk. VI revolver had a bayonet designed for it for use in trench raiding, but it wasn't very popular, apparently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webley_Revolver
Note: All avatars and any images or other media embedded in comments were hosted on the JS-Kit website and have been lost; references to haloscan comments have been partially automatically remapped, but accuracy is not guaranteed and corrections are solicited.
If you notice any problems with this page or wish to have your home page link updated, please contact John Hardin <jhardin@impsec.org>